The Evolving Role of Insights in Business with Pavi Gupta

[00:00:00] Pavi Gupta: So with no offense to people who are from the tech side on this, um, I think they’re brilliant and the solutions they’re bringing is outstandingly amazing. However, they are not domain experts for understanding how insights are done. 

[00:00:16] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:00:17] Pavi Gupta: And this is where we can bring to that party to say, we know what needs to happen or what is needed, and if we join hands.

[00:00:27] Pavi Gupta: Actually leverage the power of that technology to solve for what we need or what are challenges that we are dealing with. Then both of this can come together. 

[00:00:36] MRII Announcer: Welcome to MRII’s Insights and Innovators podcast, where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices.

[00:00:47] MRII Announcer: Now here’s your host for today’s episode. 

[00:00:50] Stan Sthanunathan: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining today’s Sessions of Insights and Innovators. I’m your host for today, Stan. Stan. [00:01:00] Today’s topic is evolving role of insights in business, and for that we have lined up a great guest. His name is Pavi Gupta, a 29 year veteran in the insights industry.

[00:01:15] Stan Sthanunathan: Just as an aside, Pavi and I work together at Coca-Cola for many years, so I know him personally very well, and I con a really good friend. He had worked on both agency side and on the client side, and therefore has a very balanced point of view on the discipline. In this episode, PA shares his perspective on what he has experienced along the way, how the world insights a change and this point of view on what lies ahead.

[00:01:49] Stan Sthanunathan: So whether you are on the client side or on the agency side. You’ll find this insights very informative and provocative. [00:02:00] Welcome, Pavi. 

[00:02:02] Pavi Gupta: Thank you, Stan. 

[00:02:03] Stan Sthanunathan: Great to be here. Great. Now I’d like to ask you a few questions and we’ll keep it free flowing, but before I ask you those questions on your thoughts on the status of the industry, why don’t you give the audience a quick intro into your career?

[00:02:20] Pavi Gupta: Awesome. Thank you Stan. Um, I think if I wanted to summarize again, it’s close to three decades in the industry. If I wanted to summarize it in one word, I would say it’s been a journey of evolution. So I started, um, on the insights on the agency side, and before that, um, as born and brought up in India, my father was in the Army.

[00:02:42] Pavi Gupta: So, you know, we moved. And I studied in 10 different schools all across the country. And I think there, from that stage itself, there was this wiring of, let’s be curious about what’s going on and let’s look for connections so that we can make more [00:03:00] sense. Of how we can survive in this new world that every time, um, you know, new classes, new school, new, uh, new friends.

[00:03:07] Pavi Gupta: So when I started on the agency side, it was a very small company, um, in India called Research International part of Kantar, and I started with con research. But evolved to starting to learn more qualitative as well because we had an office in Delhi and I was one of five members and we did not have a luxury of a full service office there.

[00:03:28] Pavi Gupta: I moved to the client site, Coca-Cola, worked with them for 15 years. That’s where you and I, uh, had the great fortune of, uh, working in learning from Ustan. Uh, is the evolution continued because it wasn’t just about call on. And it wasn’t just about consumer research, it was also about shopper research and commercial.

[00:03:47] Pavi Gupta: And you know, this is what I always say is the superpower of Coca-Cola sometimes not known as well, is the muscle that it has in the commercial space in a positive way because they, they distribute, they’re the world’s largest distributor [00:04:00] and they have the world’s largest, richest data set of what’s happening at the point of sale.

[00:04:05] Pavi Gupta: I subsequently joined Johnson and Johnson, um, vision and I was based out of Jacksonville, Florida. Here. The evolution was from A CPG world to a med device world, and it was interesting because when people buy contact lenses, it’s still a consumer choice, but the fact that you need vision correction.

[00:04:27] Pavi Gupta: You’re a patient, you’re not a consumer. It’s, you know, it’s the card you have been dealt with. So suddenly the doctor’s role becomes much more important as well to understand. We also acquired a business called Abbott Medical Optics, which was surgical vision. Did it catch right? And refractive surgery. So that was another layer of evolution because it was completely B2B, the consumer was not a consumer anymore.

[00:04:49] Pavi Gupta: It was completely a patient, and they did not even know what was the brand or the product being used for those surgeries. Subsequently, I joined, um, s SC Johnson, [00:05:00] and I was with them for four years, and the evolution journey continued now more in the data and analytics space. And my last role at SC Johnson was as the chief data and analytics officer reporting into the CIO.

[00:05:13] Pavi Gupta: So for the first time, I was out of the commercial organization reporting it to it. And here the evolution was how do we leverage the power of data to what I call displaying offense. Rather than just play defense. So how do you leverage data to drive growth? Of course, you still need to play defense because the data needs to be secure.

[00:05:33] Pavi Gupta: It needs to be compliant, it needs to be reported, it needs to be standardized and harmonized, but that’s necessary not sufficient to drive growth. You need to think of data differently to drive growth. So that’s kind of the, the journey, uh, so far, Stan, and it’s, it’s, uh, exciting in terms of. All these years and all the different experiences I’ve had.

[00:05:53] Pavi Gupta: Um, and I, I still feel in this new world with ai, there is still so much more to learn. And so the evolution journey [00:06:00] continues. 

[00:06:01] Stan Sthanunathan: Awesome. Awesome. So you seen a lot, you know, when you say three decades, you’ve seen a lot. Give me a personal point of view on is a function in a good place or does it need to pivot?

[00:06:17] Pavi Gupta: It’s very interesting you say that, Stan. I feel, I feel we are almost, either we are already at or we are very close to a delicate point. Um, and, and that delicate point is because today the business leaders see that there is a, there is a decent gap that exists between the decisions that are being taken and the research.

[00:06:45] Pavi Gupta: Initiatives that are being done, right? So the work that we are doing and the translation of that to the decision is not, you know, that linkage is not very, very strong, and business leaders are increasingly [00:07:00] realizing that and they are actually looking to challenge. Us to say, you know, why we are doing this work.

[00:07:08] Pavi Gupta: How is this going to make or take us to a better place? And especially in times when, you know, when you’ve got some headwinds, whether it is because of, you know, the demographic or economic factors or you know, some, um, some pressures of like, um, non-controllable events happening in across the world. Um, that challenge is growth and when there is a challenge on growth, then there are even more questions on scrutinizing everything that is being done to see whether that that activity or initiative is adding value or not.

[00:07:41] Pavi Gupta: So I believe the industry is at that delicate point and we need to recognize that. Actually leverage that understanding to make whatever pivot or change or tweak that we need to, because if not, I, I, I’ll quote you here, Stan. I think this session I will quote you many [00:08:00] times, um, is either you change or you’ll be asked to change.

[00:08:05] Stan Sthanunathan: Okay? No. Having said that, you know, be as a function, do a lot of good stuff. So what do you think? Uh, are the things that we get right? And equally importantly, what are the things that we get wrong? Because there’s a lot to be learned from whatever we get wrong. So both ways, you know, what’s your point of view?

[00:08:32] Pavi Gupta: I think one thing, and I like, I really love this industry and I love this function and, you know, the, the people that I work with in this function give me the greatest energy because just how we are wired is very intellectually curious. Um, always trying to find a better way and, you know, championing the, the consumer.

[00:08:54] Pavi Gupta: The signals of the marketplace and bringing it back to the business. So I think that is the piece [00:09:00] I feel we are very good at. We are very good at, you know, representing that perspective of what’s going on and what might happen on the basis of those signals of, you know, how we learn and try to make sense of those, possibly sometimes some of that.

[00:09:19] Pavi Gupta: What we are really doing good comes in our way. Maybe that is where we’ve got opportunity is sometimes we get so stuck on doing it perfectly that you know that that perfection comes in the way of progress. And I think that is where we need to find the balance because in the day and ages that we are living in.

[00:09:40] Pavi Gupta: The patience is reasonably thin. Mm-hmm. And everybody is looking for progress rather than perfection. And this doesn’t mean that we need to throw perfection out of the window, but yes. Can we be a little bit more generous with, you know, that perfection piece and maybe 80, 85% is good [00:10:00] to go and maybe, you know, maybe that experimentation and learning, um, ability that we need to build.

[00:10:08] Pavi Gupta: Can actually help us continue to strive towards perfection. So don’t wait for that a hundred percent. 

[00:10:13] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:14] Pavi Gupta: You know, start making that progress the moment you are at 70, 75, 80%. And then continue to hone in and make it better. 

[00:10:21] Stan Sthanunathan: Correct. I love that line. Perfection sometimes comes in the way of progress. I think that’s a good North Star comment, uh, which we should keep in mind.

[00:10:32] Stan Sthanunathan: So. Are we as an industry guilty of pursuing perfection? Is that what you’re suggesting? 

[00:10:41] Pavi Gupta: I think we can very easily fall in that trap. 

[00:10:44] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:10:45] Pavi Gupta: And I have seen times when we have fallen in that trap. 

[00:10:48] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm-hmm. There 

[00:10:48] Pavi Gupta: was a time when, and again, it’s, it doesn’t mean that it’s not important. Quality of data is important, but beyond the point, you know, just getting [00:11:00] stuck on that quality of.

[00:11:01] Pavi Gupta: Information is not going to deliver value to the stakeholders. So if quality of information is a problem with the current existing tools, instead of trying to just improve that tool, you know, look at lateral ways to still get the solution. You know, and sometimes I have seen us being guilty of that, like I feel.

[00:11:22] Pavi Gupta: When the entire social data started coming in a very big way, I would say about 10 years ago, and it was almost the wild west of where, where it was maybe even abused. Not just used, but it was available very freely. I remember, and I was part of that camp, so I’m guilty. I’m not pointing fingers here again, I’ll quote you.

[00:11:43] Pavi Gupta: It’s like five, three fingers are pointing back if I’m pointing to someone. So I was part of that and we were busy saying, oh, but that’s not a good signal to look at because it’s biased. It’s only few people and a lot of other people are not posting. And by the way. [00:12:00] I’m not sure, you know, are they actually going to talk about what I really need or not?

[00:12:04] Pavi Gupta: So a lot of that information is just exhaust. It’s not even information, it’s not insights. And through the process we ignored. What was actually happening was that people were telling us more about themselves than we asked them to. And it was an invaluable signal that we were not tapping into. And there was no reason to say, we should not tap into this signal.

[00:12:24] Pavi Gupta: Right. So I have seen times when we dig in and we feel what we are doing is right, and we need to continue to improve the way we are doing it, instead of maybe sometimes opening our minds to maybe there’s a different way to go after the same problem. 

[00:12:38] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm-hmm. No, that’s, that’s, that’s very, uh. True. Very, very true.

[00:12:44] Stan Sthanunathan: Uh, I mean, you cannot miss the word AI and tech in today’s world. When you talk to any insights person, those two words are used extremely frequently. [00:13:00] In a world where you see that actually becoming so omnipresent, where do you see the insights industry five years from today? 

[00:13:11] Pavi Gupta: Yeah, I think, again, I, I fully agree with you Stan.

[00:13:14] Pavi Gupta: AI is everywhere. You cannot ignore it. Um, it’s interesting that. You know, there’s almost two streams of thoughts on AI and they’re diametrically opposite. There’s one stream which says, this is the best thing ever to happen, and there’s another stream saying, this is far over hype than even the book.com, you know, burst or cycle.

[00:13:34] Pavi Gupta: But the fact that AI is around us and the fact that, um, it can really help us rethink or reimagine what we are doing, I don’t think anybody can argue with that right now. The question is to what extent. Should we be taking that? Um, and to what extent should we be finding the balance between what we already know?

[00:13:56] Pavi Gupta: So with no offense to people who are from the tech [00:14:00] side on this, um, I think they’re brilliant and the solutions they’re bringing is outstandingly amazing. However, they are not domain experts. For understanding how insights are done. 

[00:14:13] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm. 

[00:14:13] Pavi Gupta: And this is where we can bring to that party to say we know what needs to happen or what is needed, and if we join hands and actually leverage the power of that technology to solve for what we need or what our challenges that we are dealing with, then both of this can come together.

[00:14:32] Pavi Gupta: In fact, um, Anari, I presented this. There was a paper I presented on I Feel Insights. Will help ai, just like AI is helping insights. 

[00:14:45] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:14:45] Pavi Gupta: And actually, I believe both of you know, insights can help improve AI and AI can help improve insights and therefore it’s a continuous improvement growth, you know, infinity growth loop that we can get into.

[00:14:58] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:14:59] Pavi Gupta: So [00:15:00] how can insights help ai? Because AI is at the end of the day. It’s about the business and it’s about the people, right? And of course there is a technology to it, and because the insights part is about understanding the business and about understanding consumers, we can actually improve the solutions, you know, by being more business focused and consumer focused rather than tool focused.

[00:15:25] Pavi Gupta: So that’s where we can bring a difference, right? Even the best AI. Cannot answer the best question if, if we don’t know how to write the right prompt. Hmm. So that’s where the insight, the human understanding piece comes from. You know, some of the best briefs I’ve worked in my life have come when the question was smart enough to know.

[00:15:47] Pavi Gupta: That give clues into what we should be actually doing already, right? So that is where the human intuition, the understanding piece and connecting the dots comes together. And that is why I believe curiosity and [00:16:00] empathy are human strengths or superpowers that insights can funnel. To make AI better, and obviously AI can make insights better by giving us better workflows, better ways to work, better ways to deal with a lot of information.

[00:16:15] Pavi Gupta: Mm-hmm. Um, and, and then take us to a level where, you know, some of that. Data mining or mind numbing, um, number crunching, that sucks away. Our energy and time can be automated so that we can free up our time to do more of the creative thinking and the connecting of the dots. So that’s where it can enable and empower us as well.

[00:16:36] Pavi Gupta: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:37] Stan Sthanunathan: So. Based on your experience, I know you also, uh, did some specific courses. You know, I love the way you strongly believe in continual learning. Uh, I know you did some courses, uh, pretty recently, I’m thinking. Yeah. Yes. Uh, to keep yourself abreast of all the technological development that have happened [00:17:00] now, based on that and all the work that you have done in all these companies that you work for.

[00:17:07] Stan Sthanunathan: Are there some pitfalls that we should avoid?

[00:17:14] Pavi Gupta: Yeah, I think, I think the biggest pitfall that we need to, you know, get smarter at, and I can see that there is more growing recognition of that piece is, you know, flip the funnel today, or I’ll say maybe yesterday, because I think today we are almost, I can see the change coming, but yesterday. It was a lot about, here is a tool, here is a technology, here is an AI solution, and maybe 70% focus was on that.

[00:17:44] Pavi Gupta: And then 20% was on, you know, um, the solution or the business itself. And maybe 10% was on the people and the change management. And that needs to get flipped to say, how do we actually start with understanding, [00:18:00] you know, what is the problem that we are solving for? What is the process and what are, what are the barriers or motivators that people have in terms of addressing those problems that they’re dealing with?

[00:18:11] Pavi Gupta: And then how can AI be an enabler to solve for it? And so again, it doesn’t mean that we are not giving importance. To the AI or the solution, but it just means that the starting point is different and the ending point is also different because the ending to point is not about ai. The ending point is about what’s the business transformation, what’s the impact that you drove?

[00:18:32] Pavi Gupta: So, you know, so, so don’t fall in the trap of what I typically call as formal driven, you know, um, strategy, which is the fear of missing out. Somebody else is doing this better. So, hey, they have this chatbot and I should also have this chatbot. Like, what’s the business problem I’m trying to solve? And what is the human process that I can, and I’m looking to improve?

[00:18:57] Pavi Gupta: And yes, if chatbot is the answer, [00:19:00] then great, go for it. But just because somebody has built a great chatbot doesn’t mean we just need to bring it into our environment. 

[00:19:06] Stan Sthanunathan: Yep. That’s a, that’s a great, uh, advice, probably focus on what is the outcome. From the business that you want to drive and work your way back, uh, otherwise, you know, you have a hammer and everything will look like a nail.

[00:19:20] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. Yes. And I really don’t want that. So, you know, I think that’s a good, uh, word of caution and it is something that we should all keep in mind to make sure that, you know, we start with the business outcome in mind and not get ly focused on the tool. So we talked about the tools, we talked about the pitfalls.

[00:19:40] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, we talked about, you know, uh, the role of insight function and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, you know, while you are talking about start of the business outcome in mind, there was a kind of a reference to the style and the influencing skill and the leadership that we all need to [00:20:00] bring to the table.

[00:20:02] Stan Sthanunathan: So that we can have a material impact on business. Can you give an example or two from your own personal experience, how you brought about, uh, you know, your leadership style or, you know, your influencing skill to make a material impact on the business in a world where all the conversation is around technology and ai.

[00:20:28] Pavi Gupta: So, and I will not take names of the organizations because I don’t want this to come in the wrong way. Every organization I’ve worked in, I, I have tremendous respect for. Um, and, and there’s so much we’ve learned and obviously this is the learning journeys and processes, but it’s also a reflection of my own evolution as a leader.

[00:20:47] Pavi Gupta: Um, one of the organizations I worked in, um, when I went into that role. I felt the best way to drive change was top down, and it [00:21:00] was almost as if I went in with like, I have all the solutions. I know how this is done. Just go do it. And we drove some traction, but it, I, I feel we missed a lot of opportunity because.

[00:21:14] Pavi Gupta: Because the top down approach I feel doesn’t work because you’re not, you’re, you’re almost shutting down the brilliance or the superpower of the people or the teams that you have. Who obviously have a great understanding of the stakeholders and the business. And in some cases, when you’re new to the organization, they know it better than you do even though you’re their leader.

[00:21:34] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:35] Pavi Gupta: But when you come up with a mandate and you’re like, okay, this is the methodology. We’re gonna do this. This was a solution. We saw this happening, I’ve seen this story and I’ve seen how to address it. Let’s just go do it. And when I changed roles and joined a different organization, I pivoted too much from that, from that learning.

[00:21:52] Pavi Gupta: And I, and I felt. It needs to be bottom up. And what I realized that that didn’t work as well. And actually, I, I think this [00:22:00] example will gel with you, Stan, because I think we probably worked on a project with you as well on that. And, and I allowed that to become more bottom up and it’s like, Hey, I believe here is a solution.

[00:22:10] Pavi Gupta: Why don’t you guys look at it, see how you can make it work. It was very gentle, you know, kind of, uh, uh, not a directive and let it happen organically. Number one, it took too long for people to even commission that work. And number two, even though they commissioned it, they really never kind of embraced it fully and they never really championed it.

[00:22:30] Pavi Gupta: So. The third time I pivoted, um, I, and this is where I feel that my leadership style has evolved and become better, is how do I find the balance between a top down and a bottom up? Because that then can really drive that influencing better. And what I, what I believe in this. And there was a video. I watched it, I think it was a Ted Talk long back.

[00:22:51] Pavi Gupta: I’d seen it, but it really gelled for me that. Leadership is sometimes overrated where you think you’re going to give instructions and everybody else will follow. [00:23:00] But this video talks about people are sitting on a, a hillside. It’s a very grainy video, and someone comes and starts doing a crazy dance. And they, they say that’s the analog of the leader and let’s see what happens.

[00:23:12] Pavi Gupta: And other people are, it’s a picnic. They’re just sitting thinking, this guy’s crazy. But then within a few moments, two or three people come and join this person, and then they start kind of trying to copy his steps, and suddenly that builds the groundswell and the momentum. And then before you know it, everybody in the hilltop is dancing.

[00:23:30] Pavi Gupta: Right. And the narrative there talks about, it’s not just about the leader, but really it’s about the first few followers. 

[00:23:37] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:23:38] Pavi Gupta: And that is what actually drove. The momentum, right? So you do need a leader, you do need a vision, but you need, most importantly, you need those first few followers. And so that was that evolution.

[00:23:49] Pavi Gupta: The third time, the balance between the top down and the bottom up, let’s look for champions. Let’s look for people who can actually become those advocates, who will then drive this. [00:24:00] Mm-hmm. And then that leading to a change in influencing, in terms of driving the outcomes. Yeah. 

[00:24:05] Stan Sthanunathan: No, that’s, that’s a great one.

[00:24:06] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, not just lead, but also create the first set of, uh, early followers because that’s creates momentum. That’s, that’s a really, really profound concept. As you are talking, you know, I, I, I want to get your point of view on another subject. This whole notion of collaboration versus consensus. Do we clearly understand the difference between the two?

[00:24:33] Stan Sthanunathan: This is not specific to Insights alone, but yes, in general about leadership. Do we? 

[00:24:40] Pavi Gupta: Yeah, I, I think it’s a very interesting one because if you think about it, Stan, it’s about, you know, it’s, again, it’s about finding the balance, right? 

[00:24:48] Stan Sthanunathan: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:48] Pavi Gupta: Because it could be. Consensus means, let’s take it to the lowest common denominator.

[00:24:54] Pavi Gupta: Everybody should agree. 

[00:24:56] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. 

[00:24:56] Pavi Gupta: And then what happens is you dilute the solution so much [00:25:00] just to keep everybody happy. Happy. Right. And I think the collaboration needs to be, it’s a give and take. And again, even the phrase give and take is give and take. It’s not take and give. Right. So to do that is like, okay, what am I giving?

[00:25:15] Pavi Gupta: Then maybe what is that I’m taking? And so, but then what it also represents is it’s both ways. It’s mutual, you know? And how do you actually do something which recognizes maybe there are some other aspects or nuances and somebody has a different thought and that actually makes it better. But at the same time, there are some core beliefs that you still hang onto because you want to bring a better solution.

[00:25:39] Pavi Gupta: You don’t want to just make everybody happy. ’cause if you try to make everybody happy. You’re just going to go to the lowest common denominator. 

[00:25:45] Stan Sthanunathan: Nobody is happy at the end of that. Right? That is unfortunate. Truth of the life. So I, I got it. Very clear difference between, you know, collaboration and consensus.

[00:25:55] Stan Sthanunathan: Now, you know, you manage teams, you know, you manage teams of various [00:26:00] sizes along the way. What, how do you coach and guide members of your insights team to make sure that they can create the type of impact? Because impact cannot be just a leader led impact. Impact has to be a collective effort of a broader teams, and everybody has to pull their weight.

[00:26:19] Stan Sthanunathan: How do you make sure that you know you can coach and guide them to be the best that they’re capable of? What are the two or three tips that you. 

[00:26:28] Pavi Gupta: So the one piece that I rely the most on stand is it’s almost, I will call it a reframe. If you look at the insights analytics teams, we think our job is to solve for the need or the question that was brought to our table.

[00:26:47] Pavi Gupta: The initiative, oh, I need to launch this product. I need to find out what will the potential be? Or I need to find out what’s the best way to communicate it. Or, I have already launched this product. Tell me how it is doing in the marketplace. Right? So [00:27:00] it’s very initiative driven. And so what ends up happening in our mind is we feel that when we’ve answered the question, when I’ve told you this product, I tested and here are the attributes that are working.

[00:27:12] Pavi Gupta: My job is done. Or if I’ve told you, here is where you can go and innovate, and these are the spaces which are very fertile. My job is done, and that’s where I bring this reframe to say, actually that’s when your job should start because you are not here. You know, to champion the insight. You are here to champion the consumer.

[00:27:34] Pavi Gupta: The insight still is a means to an end. What is the so what and the now what and what are we going to do with the insight and we should not. Like abandon that process or like wash our hands away from it. We need to start working with our business stakeholders to say, now that I have given you this answer, let’s think about how are we actually going to leverage it?

[00:27:56] Pavi Gupta: What are the decisions we are taking? What are the learnings that are coming through, [00:28:00] and what is it that we should be doing next? And this becomes a little challenging because many times we have so many questions and so many stakeholders that. You know, we, we feel it’s incumbent on us to move to the next question because we already answered the previous one, but that is where we need to build some discipline and leaders.

[00:28:20] Pavi Gupta: Yeah. And leaders need to give that space to our teams to say, you know, the work is not done. That impact still needs to happen. And by the way, circling this back, tying it back to ai, that’s where we could leverage AI to say, you know, how can we, some of the routines, some of the process work, how can we just get it out so that we continue to champion that insight to drive it to that impact?

[00:28:41] Stan Sthanunathan: It goes back to the comment that you made pretty early on in the interview where he said, it’s all about business impact. And that’s, you know, until that is, uh, driven, the job is not done. It’s not just answering a question. So that’s, that’s very, very useful advice for people. [00:29:00] Now, let’s circle back to this whole world of AI again because, you know, it’s, it’s something that is most in the mind of everybody.

[00:29:10] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, imagine, uh, a young. Guy or a girl has joined your team and uh, what advice would you give them in a world where AI is everywhere? What advice would you give them to say that, okay, these are the things that you need to do to be successful in the insights industry? 

[00:29:35] Pavi Gupta: That’s a great question, Stan. Do you know one, one actually advice I have for.

[00:29:42] Pavi Gupta: People who are bringing in this new talent and the next generation coming into the organization is also think about the concept of reverse mentoring. And many times these, you know, this generation that is coming in are far more AI native than we [00:30:00] are. Yep. So actually leverage them as a way to understand, you know, how these tools can be used even smarter and better.

[00:30:08] Pavi Gupta: So that’s, that’s kind of advice to myself. Or to people who you know are working with, you know, new members who are coming into the teams. But to answer your question to the people who are coming in, I, the biggest piece I always try to. Inspire or provoke is in the space of curiosity. Ask the questions.

[00:30:27] Stan Sthanunathan: Hmm. 

[00:30:28] Pavi Gupta: And, you know, continue to look for those connections. How do you connect between, you know, draw connections between the work that you’re doing and maybe the technology solution that’s there. And maybe, you know, some of the new interesting approaches that are there. So, you know, the more we have an open mind.

[00:30:44] Pavi Gupta: To continue to look for those themes and patterns, the more likely we will be to leverage some of these technologies and the more ready we will be for that constant change. Because the pace of change is only accelerating, it’s not slowing down. 

[00:30:59] Stan Sthanunathan: Got [00:31:00] it. That’s, that’s very good. Any threats that they should be aware of and they should plan for?

[00:31:06] Stan Sthanunathan: Kind of, I think the, 

[00:31:07] Pavi Gupta: yeah, I think, again, I don’t know whether it’s a threat, but it’s a watch out is. You know, many times people feel, okay, this is it. This is the silver bullet. Mm, this is it, this new tool, and I can answer everything with this. Right? And that is, that I feel is a threat because if you look at, I call it with ai, there is this concept of fascination and fatigue.

[00:31:30] Pavi Gupta: Hmm. So there’s very quick fascination, but there is even quicker fatigue that is coming through. Right? Hmm. So. So that’s why, you know, you need, like, you cannot latch on and then be over committed to anything, which might look to be the most amazing solution. So we need to be aware of the fact that there might be something better, that better might come out, or maybe something that we saw was remarkably, remarkably good and [00:32:00] we kept an open mind to it, actually has some deficiencies as well.

[00:32:03] Pavi Gupta: Mm-hmm. So that’s where like, that’s the watch out is. Everything that you’re embracing still stay curious. You know, don’t imagine that there is going to be a perfect solution that comes. Find that balance, strive for that balance. Keep an open mind and continue to again, you know, progress versus perfection.

[00:32:21] Pavi Gupta: Continue to progress. 

[00:32:23] Stan Sthanunathan: Awesome. Thank you so.

[00:32:34] Stan Sthanunathan: Really powerful nuggets of wisdom in there from your 29 years of experience. Thank you so much for doing this. 

[00:32:41] MRII Announcer: Thank you, Stan. Thanks for joining the Insights and Innovators podcast from Market Research Institute International. Click subscribe to never miss an episode, and visit us@ri.org for more market research insights.