Stop Shipping Decks, Start Shipping Decisions with Oksana Sobol

[00:00:00] Oksana Sobol: What we deliver is two things. One is growth ideas. Mm-hmm. And two is better business decisions. And then we design the system around delivering these outcomes. 

[00:00:13] MRII Announcer: Welcome to MRII’s Insights and Innovators podcast, where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices.

[00:00:23] MRII Announcer: Now here’s your host for today’s episode. 

[00:00:27] Nick Graham: Hi, and welcome to today’s episode, Stop Shipping Decks. Start Shipping Decisions. I bet you’re interested by that title. So in today’s episode, we’re gonna be talking about what, uh, modern businesses actually need from insights. Teams, organizations, as you all know, are increasingly operating in a world that’s moving faster than ever.

[00:00:44] Nick Graham: They’re driving in data and increasingly being reshaped by ai. And as a result, business expectations of insights are shifting as well. Increasingly, the shift from delivering consumer research and analysis to driving better, faster, more high quality, [00:01:00] consumer centric decision making. I’m your host Nick Graham, and today I am delighted to have with me Oksana Sobol.

[00:01:06] Nick Graham: She’s the Vice President of Insights and Decision Intelligence at the Clorox company. Oxana has spent her career building and leading insights and analytics capabilities inside large, complex organizations. From Vodafone to Nielsen, from Mondelez to Clorox. She’s also a co-host and board member of TMRE, uh, which as many of you, you know, is one of the industry’s most influential forums for insights leaders.

[00:01:30] Nick Graham: Ana’s newly expanded role puts her squarely at the intersection of insights, data and analytics. So who better than Sana, to bring us a pragmatic hands-on and business-led perspective today on how the role of insights is changing. What it takes to deliver against those expectations and how AI is going to reshape what we need from our human talent.

[00:01:52] Nick Graham: Oxana, lovely to see you again, and thank you so much for joining us today. 

[00:01:56] Oksana Sobol: Thank you for that introduction, Nick, and it’s wonderful to see you [00:02:00] again. 

[00:02:00] Nick Graham: So Alexander, let’s start by talking about the changing role of the function. It’s clearly no exaggeration to say that the business environment has changed radically over the past few years.

[00:02:11] Nick Graham: As I said in my intro, accelerating speed of change, fragmenting demand and competition, changing shape of organizations growing impact of ai. To name, but a few factors. And as a result, I would say, I think you agree that expectations of the insights function have shifted materially. So from your perspective, what do you think has really changed in what businesses now expect from insights and where do you think, uh, that change is being driven from?

[00:02:38] Oksana Sobol: Uh, we are talking about insights and analytics today, but let’s just pause for a minute on what you said, Nick, about changes in the environment as context for why businesses are raising the bar on what they want from their capabilities these days, including insights and analytics. Uh, there are three trends that I am paying attention to.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] Oksana Sobol: One, companies are becoming faster, leaner, and more agile, and also flatter organizationally. That means that hands-on dynamic contributors are valued while extra managerial layers that could slow things down without adding disproportionate value are not. And what that means for insights and analytics is that every single position has a span of influence that is growing and broadening because each individual can impact more and can do more and take on a larger scope.

[00:03:33] Oksana Sobol: Um, related to that. Then my second observation is that how we define leadership is evolving as well. Mm-hmm. So the definition of leadership is moving from this notion of managing people to, yeah. Setting a clear vision of desired outcomes, and then orchestrating all the available resources. To achieve those outcomes and all available resources [00:04:00] mean, um, data tools, capabilities, talent, technology.

[00:04:06] Oksana Sobol: It’s much broader. And so in this sense, every position in insights and analytics is now expected to be a leader. Um, and finally, as you have alluded to, the rise of blended human and AI Ag agentic workforce is reshaping what skills are required of us to succeed. And in our line of work, that means more demand for data skills on the one hand.

[00:04:30] Oksana Sobol: And on the other hand, it’s the need for stronger, sharper influencing skills. 

[00:04:38] Nick Graham: So, I mean, I think that I love by the way, the fact that you frame that within the bigger shift in organizations, because as you say, we’re not, insight is not on an island. It’s um, it’s, uh, driven by the context within the broader environment.

[00:04:51] Nick Graham: And I really love what you’re saying about the shifting of the role from being this manager of people, manager of research, manager of data. Uh, to [00:05:00] being this orchestrator of outcomes. I think, I think that I, I, I captured it correctly and this idea that this sort of orchestrator of outcomes really focused on influencing, shaping outcomes, potentially even beyond their narrow initial focus or the sort of the focus of the role.

[00:05:16] Nick Graham: I think that is a huge, uh, skill and capability shift, but also a huge mental shift, right? For a lot of our, a lot of our teams in terms of what role they play within the organization. So as a function, as we think about, um, the changes that we’re going through, when, when the dust has settled, I’m not sure we’ll ever have settled, but let’s assume that the dust settles at some point.

[00:05:39] Nick Graham: Do you think that the insights, uh, and analytics teams are going to be better or worse off? And do you think our ability to influence decision making is going to be enhanced or diminished as a result of these changes? 

[00:05:53] Oksana Sobol: Hmm. Interesting. Um, and it’s, as you mentioned before, uh, insights Analytics does not sit on an island.

[00:05:58] Oksana Sobol: It is embedded [00:06:00] into the organizational context. And, and so that’s, that’s a lens that we can apply. In that sense, our span of influence is already greater, I would say, and that is because data and insights are now firmly embedded in every. Facet of business operations. We are talking marketing, sales, research and development, but also supply side.

[00:06:21] Oksana Sobol: All of that is now powered by data and insights. I think the question is, um, are we staying relevant by elevating our ability to influence decisions? And those are decisions at the senior levels of the company, as you mentioned. But also at every level because the decisions in modern companies are made at all levels everywhere.

[00:06:46] Oksana Sobol: Mm-hmm. And all at once. And that is a shift in some companies where the times of these batch decisions made around some proverbial table by a small group of people, they are no longer the norm. Yeah. [00:07:00] Decisions now permeate the entire organization, and that means that we might need to think of ourselves less as a.

[00:07:07] Oksana Sobol: Function and more as a capability. And what is the difference? The function is thought of as a group of people who share a common discipline and, and deliver a common output to the organization. But a capability is something more ambient. It’s like air or water that surrounds every decision maker, uh, with the right input at the right moment of time.

[00:07:31] Oksana Sobol: And it blends data, insights, ai, and human creativity. So it’s that shift. From thinking of insights, analytics as a function to thinking and organizing as a capability that can have some interesting organizational implications. 

[00:07:47] Nick Graham: No, I really love that and I love that, and I really love that idea that, um, as you say, you almost make insights and analytics and data-driven decision making, as you say, it’s the sort of, it’s the water and oxygen of any company.

[00:07:59] Nick Graham: [00:08:00] And so the idea that it. It can’t just reside in a single group of people, right? It has to become endemic to the, to lots of people’s decision making and endemic to the way of operating as a business. So I love that shift to being more of a capability than just thinking of ourselves as a, as a group of people.

[00:08:17] Nick Graham: And so I’d love to hear a bit more about, I know you’re, you’ve driven a great transformation at Clorox. What specifically are you doing there to help your team, I guess, adapt to these new expectations to sort of live this mantra you talked about? 

[00:08:31] Oksana Sobol: Hmm. So what happens when you structure as a capability rather than a function?

[00:08:36] Oksana Sobol: So a function is often kind of like we are the people who do this type of work. We deliver insights, we build analytical models, we provide forecast, we make sense of data. But capability thinking is different. It is not about what you do, it is about what do you deliver to the organization? What is the output of your efforts?

[00:08:58] Oksana Sobol: Mm-hmm. And for [00:09:00] us, we are anchoring very clearly that what we actually deliver is not insights, it’s not models. What we deliver is two things. One is growth ideas. Mm-hmm. And two is better business decisions. And then we design the system around delivering these outcomes. So the exact choices that each organization will make will be different at Clorox.

[00:09:25] Oksana Sobol: Examples of two choices. One is leaning into upskilling for the insights and analytics organization, but. Also for business partners driving consumer obsession and enabling them at scale, that is a big change vector for us. Uh, and another choice might be that how we are allocating resources, which in our case is a more flexible, dynamically deployed model where resources are not frozen in place attached to certain businesses or other components of the organization, but the resources are permitted to flow more dynamically to engage.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Oksana Sobol: Was the highest points of impact that we see at any given time. And that is again, through the lens of where can we deliver the strongest growth ideas or where can we help sharpen better dis business, um, decisions. So that, those are just two examples of the changes in system design that might come with orienting from functional thinking to capability led thinking.

[00:10:26] Nick Graham: And I imagine, and I love, love, love, love. Can’t say that enough. I love that sort of reframe of what we’re here to do because I think so often insights gets insights and analytics teams get stuck in the mechanics of what we historically did. Like we delivered the voice of the consumer. We delivered consumer and shopper understanding.

[00:10:48] Nick Graham: But actually, as you say. We’re here to drive better decisions to bring consumer and shopper centric growth ideas to the organization. We’re here to deliver tangible [00:11:00] things that the business can then take action on. And I really love that sort of shift and I think it also helps, um, shift that focus. And sometimes the fear I often hear in teams about, you know, when we introduce DIY tools, that my job is going away.

[00:11:14] Nick Graham: Well actually, as you say, if we reframe. What we’re here to deliver. We shouldn’t be scared of democratization of knowledge. We shouldn’t be scared of enablement of DIY because actually that is part of enabling a bigger, sort of a consumer centric, um, decision making organization, right? It goes back to your idea of empowering the capability, not just, um, the function, the group of people.

[00:11:38] Oksana Sobol: Well, and, uh, you just said it Nick, that, uh, you know, insights is not an outcome, and I agree with that completely. It is a half. Product on the way to something else. You know, I, I joke that I’m yet to walk into a store and see an insights report sitting on the shelf and retailing for 1299, because that is not a product that is an [00:12:00] ingredient that the company needs to produce a product.

[00:12:02] Oksana Sobol: And the product is either an idea or, or again, it’s, it’s a business decision for us. Yeah. And so that becomes this. Filter that shapes, one, what we engage with, and two, how we engage. And we talked about, uh, some differences in what you would choose to engage with, uh, with, if, if those are your outcomes, if that’s where you set the bar.

[00:12:24] Oksana Sobol: Um, but also, um, how, how would you engage differently? So here is. Here’s an example. Um, you would stop thinking about shipping decks and start thinking about are you shipping the right business decisions that you’re putting in front of the. Stakeholders. Uh, so when the deliverable, when you think of your deliverable as I’m delivering an insider, I’m delivering a modeling output.

[00:12:50] Oksana Sobol: The result is some 20 page deck that is going to be dense on charts, but not very dense on business utility. But when you understand that [00:13:00] your output is a business decision, the way you influence might be just one page that starts with the words. Two, achieve business objective X. Mm-hmm. You must solve consumer problem Y by doing Z.

[00:13:16] Oksana Sobol: Exactly. ’cause insight one, insight two, insight three. And so you see that the narrative is flipped here. Insights are supporting points about to, to kind of articulate why you think this is the right idea. But the conversation will not revolve around that. The conversation should revolve around the merit of the idea you’re proposing.

[00:13:38] Oksana Sobol: Yeah. Around the actionability of it and not the data points. 

[00:13:42] Nick Graham: I think that’s spot on, and I think that reframing from. I like your idea. Indeed. It’s the title of the podcast, not shipping decks. Right? Shipping decisions. But I think that decision back thinking is absolutely central to the shift that you’re talking about.

[00:13:57] Nick Graham: Right. So from the brief all the way through [00:14:00] to the, I won’t call it a debrief ’cause it doesn’t have to be a debrief, but the download and the engagement of the organization with the outcome. I feel so many of our teams sort of fall into the trap of going of focusing on the research and analysis. Sorry.

[00:14:16] Nick Graham: A lot of our teams fallen into the trap of th into of, um, start again. A lot of our teams fall into the trap of focusing on the research analyst. Analy, start again. Sorry. I feel like a lot of our teams fall into the trap of focusing on the research and analytics itself as the end point, as opposed to you, as you say, if you think about what’s the decision that I need the, the business needs to take.

[00:14:40] Nick Graham: You design the research and analytics differently. Usually it’s better because it’s more focused on really dis really understanding how to drive that decision and then as a result, as at the end, I’ve seen too often teams. Get stuck writing a hundred page texts because they feel they have to report everything that they discovered as opposed to if you think about I’ve gotta [00:15:00] hit this meeting and it’s, um, on this date with this stakeholder, what actually do they need?

[00:15:05] Nick Graham: They probably need an email. They probably need a one page. Like, here’s what to do about it. And so I think reframing it to think about how do I drive that decision completely changes how you would approach, um, a piece of research or a piece of analysis. 

[00:15:19] Oksana Sobol: You hit on something very important, which also is connected to how we spend our time and how we think about which portion of our work is the portion that generates value.

[00:15:29] Oksana Sobol: And I think your. Completely correct that historically and maybe still in some places, uh, we think as you know, 70% of our time resides in doing research and that right value is delivered. So we are actually, um, being very purposeful about making it clear that that middle part of the journey is. Not in fact the most impactful part and where we need to spend more time is [00:16:00] upstream from that and downstream from that.

[00:16:01] Oksana Sobol: And so specifically what that means upstream is problem shaping. Yes. And that means tightening. What is the business objective? But also what can, what hypothesis about consumer problems to solve do we have? Mm-hmm. That will enable the business to achieve that objective. So invest the time there into hypothesis generation, into brainstorming what we know, what we do not know.

[00:16:27] Oksana Sobol: What is the decision. Why can’t you make the decision today? What information are you like, where do you need more confidence? So shifting our time and effort there, and that’s a distinct skillset that mm-hmm. That we are training. Um, and then you’ve got that, you know, middle part, but now hopefully you are able to execute it.

[00:16:47] Oksana Sobol: Much faster and much tighter because you’re not trying to boil the ocean and see, right, right. That all the interesting nuggets come up from the data you are looking for points to prove or disprove or [00:17:00] build out correct. Specific hypothesis. And then that third step is activation step. And again, that’s where we want people to spend their energy rather than in the in the middle step.

[00:17:10] Oksana Sobol: Yeah, because that’s where the rubber meets the road. So this is where you are putting your influencing skills to work to come back to the business and say. This is what I think you should do. Mm-hmm. Because here’s what it does for the consumer. Here’s what it does for your business. These are the reasons why this is the right time for this idea.

[00:17:28] Oksana Sobol: Let’s talk about your reaction and let’s talk about what implementation. Yeah. 

[00:17:32] Nick Graham: Which takes courage, right? It takes courage. It’s, it’s, in a way, it’s easier just to report what’s consumers said or what the analysis said. It’s actually much more. Difficult to say, this is what I think and this is what I recommend.

[00:17:44] Nick Graham: Um, so it’s, it requires a very different skillset from our teams as well. 

[00:17:50] Oksana Sobol: It does, it does. And also, uh, kind of in terms of, uh, it’s a journey for our teams, but it is also a journey for [00:18:00] stakeholders, especially if they have gotten used over the years that. They’re formulating research questions and then tossing them over the fence.

[00:18:07] Oksana Sobol: And this is a new mode of engagement for them also to, uh, invest into problem shaping. And then, um. Understand the value that the person brings into the, into the implementation process. Uh, so this is, this is part of the transformation as well, um, in, uh, uh, for us, we call it vector consumer obsession vector, where it is not that insights, quote unquote, represents the consumer in the organization, everyone.

[00:18:37] Oksana Sobol: Is representing the consumer in the organization. Um, some specific things that have been put into place, and I will say business partners have been actually very responsive and eager, uh, to adopt these new ways of working. In particular, democratization of knowledge is something they have been very excited about and was one of the initiatives that was most eagerly and most easily embraced.

[00:18:59] Oksana Sobol: Yeah. [00:19:00] And that means for us, uh, everyone in the entire company is granted access to everything we know. About the consumer. All the underlying research with gen AI tools on top to enable ease of synthesis and um, uh, and idea generation. And that can sometimes feel like a scary idea at first. And, you know, the functional thinking might have, uh, some objections and ifs and buts.

[00:19:27] Oksana Sobol: Uh, but I think practice shows that this is a way to empower the organization and, and, and good. Things come out of it. Business partners are using the information appropriately and they come ready to engage at a deeper level. 

[00:19:40] Nick Graham: Yeah. No, totally. And I understand, I understand the hesitation. I’ve seen it and heard it, uh, firsthand myself.

[00:19:45] Nick Graham: But as you say, I think if, I think that, I think a lot of it comes back down to that, that shift you talked about from thinking about ourselves as a, as a function to thinking about ourselves as a capability. And that means enabling others as much as doing ourselves. Right. And so that’s a. [00:20:00] A big shift. I also think the bell curve sort of distribution of time piece that you talked about is a really important piece, which is where can I add most value?

[00:20:07] Nick Graham: Again, I think we’ve historically focused in. The middle there, right? As you said, the doing. And I think if you think actually in future, the reframing of that is where, yes, of course you can add value in the middle, but where I really, really can add value, particularly in a world of AI and um, DIY tools, et cetera, et cetera, is.

[00:20:25] Nick Graham: The beginning part and the end part. The, the framing of the problem and the activation. That also shifts, and we’ll talk about this now, I guess, about, about skills and capability. About skills, but it changes the type of profile that you’re training for, right? And you are skilling up. So, 

[00:20:41] Oksana Sobol: and actually before we dive into scale, so you made an interesting reference, uh, to kind of this intersection of enabling others and ai and that is another thing that is new because we have, uh, tools and capabilities now that we did not have before to enable business partners to be connected to [00:21:00] consumers.

[00:21:00] Oksana Sobol: Directly. So that’s another vector of change that we are embracing by actually putting tools directly into the hands of business, uh, partners. Um, and, uh, so, so the uptake of this is snowballing every year. And now I see that our business partners engage with, uh, 1000 consumers per day. On average, and I’m counting weekends and um, and holidays into, into this average.

[00:21:27] Oksana Sobol: And so clearly the appetite from the organization is there. And uh, now thankfully we have capabilities that enable it. 

[00:21:36] Nick Graham: That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic to, to hear And as you say, I think is, speaks to the need to actually build a true culture. So one of things we often complain about is insights analytics people, right?

[00:21:46] Nick Graham: That, um, we, the, the company needs to be, whichever company we’re in, needs to be more consumer centric. Um, but it can’t all possibly sit on us. And in fact, that is true, right? And that therefore means that you need to enable. Encourage, [00:22:00] inspire, train, upscale, et cetera, our broader, um, uh, partners as well to be able to do that.

[00:22:06] Nick Graham: I’d love to talk. You’ve sort of, we’ve, we’ve talked about this a little bit as we’ve talked through the last few questions, but once the work and the operating model starts to shift, obviously the skills profile that you’re looking for from your insights and analytics teams needs to change too. And you sort of teed this up through some of the, your previous answers, but given what you’re seeing today.

[00:22:26] Nick Graham: Which skills and capabilities do you think are becoming more important versus less important? Um, for insights analytics professionals? 

[00:22:35] Oksana Sobol: Um, I think the bigger picture context for skillset evolution is again, that how organizations are making decisions is evolving and specifically decision making is becoming faster.

[00:22:46] Oksana Sobol: It is more decentralized and it’s more technology assisted. And what does this mean for, uh, insights and analytics? I would say, uh, three things that we are focusing on. One is data skills. [00:23:00] Data is everywhere. Big data is everywhere. It’s now in every facet of business operation, from supply to consumption side, to media, to retail, to brand engagement.

[00:23:11] Oksana Sobol: The list goes on. And so even for people who do not see themselves as experts in analytics, in data science. Ability to harness data is no longer optional, uh, ability to identify the right sources and extracting the right information. It is necessary both to shape the right business problems, and oftentimes it is a better way to get to the solution than some of the traditional research methods are so that those data scales is one.

[00:23:42] Oksana Sobol: Number two. I would say it’s understanding, predicting and harnessing human behaviors. This is the heart of what insights in particular has always done, and it is still the core of our work. What is interesting is that, [00:24:00] um, unlocking, truly differentiated insights from this camp is now becoming probably the biggest source of competitive.

[00:24:09] Oksana Sobol: Advantage because everyone has access to largely the same data, largely the same tools. It’s your ability to, um, move ahead of the consumer demand and bring that differentiated point of view back into the organization that defines the quality of the growth ideas that you are going to have. And, uh, the third and final thing I would highlight here is something we have likewise touched upon, and that is ability to influence decisions.

[00:24:39] Oksana Sobol: So similarly, you know, to consumers, uh, who are making purchasing decisions, it is still people who make the bulk of decisions in their organization. And it’s the art of shaping the right problems. Was them to solve upfront and then ability to drive those end-to-end, uh, outcomes. And I will say that this is most [00:25:00] often where leadership profiles within Insights Analytics, um, are differentiated.

[00:25:06] Oksana Sobol: So people who put as much, if not more thought and effort into lending the right growth idea, l lending the right business decision with their stakeholders, uh, as in actually doing the research. That is what tends to differentiate the most influential researchers from those who, um, seem to be doing similar work but are not always having the same level of impact.

[00:25:29] Nick Graham: Yeah, no, I think that that’s absolutely spot on and I think, as you say, speaks to the shift in expectations that we’ve been talking about. Right. I did wanna pick up, I think on your second point around, um, understanding predicting human behavior. I think that is such a critical one for us to remember. A because obviously as insights analytics professionals, fundamentally it is what we’re trying to do on behalf of our organizations.

[00:25:53] Nick Graham: But I think also because it. I think framing it the way you did, I really like because it shifted from knowing about [00:26:00] people to actually about understanding how to shape behavior, which is really what we’re here to do, right? We’re here not just to know why do people buy certain brands or certain categories, but ultimately our job is to then in some ways shape or form, shape that, uh, harness that behavior in a certain direction.

[00:26:17] Nick Graham: And so I think that is a really interesting way for. You know, for those whose whose, um, passions lie more in the insight side versus the analytics side, versus, you know, to your point, everyone needs to be data savvy, but to think about reframing their job, and it goes back, I think to what you said about.

[00:26:33] Nick Graham: Our job isn’t just to come and say, this is what we learned, but if this is the behavioral shift you want in in consumers, this is actually how to drive, how you could potentially drive that behavior through this idea, through this activation, et cetera. So I think it’s a great way of sort of bringing those, those threads together.

[00:26:49] Nick Graham: And 

[00:26:49] Oksana Sobol: I’m definitely noticing that shift that you’re talking about from knowing and understanding the behavior to predicting the behavior. This is what. Organizations want now because [00:27:00] correct, everything is moving at such a greater speed. Consumer lives are, are moving at a greater speed as well. So that shift to what are our predictive capabilities is.

[00:27:11] Oksana Sobol: Very real race. Yeah, yeah, totally. Or, um, yeah. And then you said about shaping behaviors. And that’s an interesting one because that is, um, that is very difficult, right? They say that, uh, you know, if an innovation, for example is try, is trying to reshape even a simple consumer behavior, like maybe how they attend their dental hygiene, it will fail nine times out of 10.

[00:27:33] Oksana Sobol: Um, that’s why I talk more about harnessing. What people are already doing. Yeah. And understanding how to fit into the flow of, uh, of their lives. Uh, but yes, that’s where the art, so that’s truly where the art of our profession comes in. 

[00:27:53] Nick Graham: Brilliant. Absolutely. And where and where do your team learn these new skills?

[00:27:58] Nick Graham: Are, are you, is it learning on the [00:28:00] job? Are you, you recruiting new people in with a different, um, uh, uh, skillset than in the, in the past? 

[00:28:08] Oksana Sobol: We have, uh, at Clorox, what we call a seventy twenty ten development model. Mm-hmm. And what that means is that we aspire to achieve 70% of the upscaling through on the job, what we call heat experiences.

[00:28:24] Oksana Sobol: And that means that every single assignment should be viewed as a stretch assignment, and the person in that assignment has an opportunity to both deliver high value to the business. And learn new skills in the process and that that is 70%, um, of upskilling. 20% is developmental support through interactions with mentors, peers, coaches, managers who provide perspective and guidance.

[00:28:50] Oksana Sobol: We understand this to be a proactive effort that is driven by the person, not something that organization will, the organization will provide those [00:29:00] opportunities, but it is really the person who needs to build their network and find their thought partners and people who can guide them. Uh, and then the, the final tan is the, the more formal.

[00:29:11] Oksana Sobol: Learning, which could happen through training, it could happen through, uh, broadening the perspectives by leveraging opportunities that the industry offers, like listening to podcasts like, um, uh, like this, connecting with peers, um, in, in other, uh, companies. And so that’s importance of the orientation to the external environment and, and, and the industry.

[00:29:32] Oksana Sobol: Uh, the, the important thing throughout all three of these is that, um, the theme is the organization provides the environment. Guidance and opportunities to structure one’s growth, but really the onus is, uh, on the person in these flatter, nimbler, faster, more agile organizations to navigate their own career path.

[00:29:54] Oksana Sobol: And then you mentioned hiring. That is absolutely, yes. Part of building. A [00:30:00] well-rounded set of skills on the team. Uh, where the emphasis tends to be there is again, those data skills. That’s where, um, uh, the, the, the, the part that is growing. Uh, and then part of our selection process is understanding how effectively the person will influence in front of stakeholders.

[00:30:19] Nick Graham: Makes total sense. Excellent. That’s great. And I think some really practical tips as well there. Thank you, Oxana. Let’s talk about, um, well I was gonna call it the elephant in the room, but we’ve, it’s the elephant in the room we’ve sort of pointed out a few times, I dunno if it really counts. Ai. So as ai, AI agents increasingly take on some of what, uh, our teams used to do.

[00:30:40] Nick Graham: Analysis, synthesis, even elements of storytelling. It’s inevitable that the human role or the, the role of our human talent in insights and analytics is going to shift. So, and I think you’ve nodded to this in a few places, but I’d love to hear your point of view where, what do you think the human talent and insights should clearly be owning [00:31:00] moving forward?

[00:31:01] Nick Graham: And what should we be comfortable in delegating, at least in part to ai, do you think moving forward? 

[00:31:10] Oksana Sobol: Um, it is a continuation of the March of Technological Progress, but what feels a little different this time around is just the speed at which it moves, both in terms of adoption, but also the evolution of it where AI was three years ago.

[00:31:26] Oksana Sobol: Generative AI in particular and where it is today and where it will be three years from now are very different situations. I think what’s abundantly clear already is that AI is absolutely changing how we work in insights and analytics. There’s, there’s no question about that, but I think it’s also changing now what we are working on, to your point, um, for example.

[00:31:53] Oksana Sobol: So if, um, decisions are made by people today and in the future, some of those [00:32:00] decisions will be increasingly AI assisted or even AI delegated. That will probably change the type of research and input, uh, that we provide into the system and who it is that we engage with when decision make making becomes more blended human and, um, and technological.

[00:32:20] Oksana Sobol: Uh, but also what it does is it frees. Quality human attention and time to think deeper about these growth ideas and about business decisions and to engage with, with stakeholders, uh, more on problem shaping on end-to-end. Mm-hmm. Influencing. Uh, so I, I think what I keep coming back overall is what is the end game?

[00:32:43] Oksana Sobol: What is our output? And if the output is quote unquote research, then yeah. AI can already do some of that and we’ll probably take more and more of that in the future. But if the outcome is growth ideas and better business decisions, then it is clear that AI is a [00:33:00] great enable, enabler and amplifier of what people can do.

[00:33:05] Nick Graham: Could agree more. And as you say, I think if I’m being optimistic, ultimately it should be. An enabler and free up capacity for our teams to do more of that. Right. To do more of what you talked about in terms of influencing, bringing decisions and ideas to the organization or driving decisions in the organization.

[00:33:24] Oksana Sobol: I agree. Also, what I find interesting is that as an industry, we talk a lot about what AI is doing to our line of work, but we are not always. Thinking about what AI is doing for consumers and it’s doing something very similar in taking on some of the, uh, tasks that would take up their time or quality attention and streamlining that it is freeing up the time and attention for something else.

[00:33:49] Oksana Sobol: And so back to human behavior, where does the time go? What do people engage with and kind of what are we offering to them as an industry as. [00:34:00] The flow of their day, not just our changes. Thanks to ai, 

[00:34:05] Nick Graham: it’s also generating a lot of cartoons on LinkedIn and uh, images on LinkedIn, so that’s definitely being put, put to use as well.

[00:34:13] Nick Graham: And a lot of AI 

[00:34:14] Oksana Sobol: swap elsewhere. 

[00:34:15] Nick Graham: Indeed, I include may not in the slot, but include myself in using it to create images. Oxana, I’d love to bring it all sort of full circle now and talk about, um, and let me love to hear your advice, um, for our listeners and, uh, viewers. So, as you know, many of our audience are early, mid-career professionals.

[00:34:34] Nick Graham: They, they are thinking about where to focus, what skills, capabilities, experiences they should be building. So what would you encourage them to prioritize in order to stay relevant and impactful in the insights in, um, analytics industry? 

[00:34:48] Oksana Sobol: Um, I will, um, kind of touch again on the three that we talked about, data.

[00:34:54] Oksana Sobol: Mm-hmm. Consumer truth influencing, and then, and then offer one perspective that maybe ties [00:35:00] it together on the data part. I mean, this is where early career professionals have an advantage. If they are able to lean into these skills, pick up these skills, more hands on the keyboard, ability to help themselves with, with the data that gives them, uh, a critical skill and a competitive edge.

[00:35:21] Oksana Sobol: Um, keeping the focus on consumer truth that is. That, that is the core of our profession. Not much different there. Um, influencing is another interesting one for people who are starting earlier on in their journey or the midpoint of their journey because they grew up in a world that it is much richer in terms of the media landscape than the PowerPoint decks that we came to age with.

[00:35:49] Oksana Sobol: Still haunted by. And so I feel like these newer generations, they more intuitively appreciate that you would not go to a consumer and [00:36:00] try to explain them your idea with a 50 page dance deck. And so what makes you think that that’s the right way to influence the business partner? So they are more there.

[00:36:10] Oksana Sobol: I I say, you know, if, if you are in insights. You are an influencer now and might as well learn from the professionals. And so that’s where people who are earlier on have another advantage that they can harness because to them, these other, um, influencing formats are more natural and more native. They understand that there is video, that there is podcast format, that there’s social media style content, and that’s what people respond to.

[00:36:37] Oksana Sobol: So then, so that was in terms of skills, but I’ll add another consideration for earlier to mid stage. And, um, that is this, uh, think about branching out. Uh, at Clorox we talk about T-shaped professionals. T like the letter T. Um. And what that means is that the horizontal bar of the tea, it goes broad and [00:37:00] across the business it’s how do you connect to the different parts of the business.

[00:37:03] Oksana Sobol: And so the more you are able to branch out and gain experiences in other, um, specialties outside of insights and analytics. The broader your T is going to be. And that means also opening more career options because like we said, these tightly defined functions and with them, these linearly defined career tracks might be increasingly fading in the rear view.

[00:37:27] Oksana Sobol: Mirror. So that gives you breadth of engagement. Um, but then they do not neglect the, the, the, the lag of the t the I portion. Exactly. And that’s your specialization. And the reason you want to have a strong specialty is because that’s what you become known for and that’s what people come to you for.

[00:37:46] Oksana Sobol: That’s your differentiator. So think about you go deep, but also increasingly, people who go broad are valuable to the business. 

[00:37:55] Nick Graham: Yeah, I think that makes total sense. And I think even if you want your [00:38:00] career to mainly be within insights and analytics, I think what you said is, it’s, the advice I always gave teams is you talked about the, you know, growing sphere of influence or span of influence, and the fact that we need as insights, team insights, analytics teams to become more focused on the decisions we’re driving, the outcomes we’re driving as opposed to the process.

[00:38:18] Nick Graham: I think one of the best ways to do that is by getting a, an experience outside of, inside of analytics or outside of. I would say outside of consumer marketing insights and analytics, go to shopper, go to sales, go to sales strategy, go to finance, go to other parts of the organization where they, to your point, the, the length of your TE still has value because they respect data, they respect the fact that you’re bringing insight into.

[00:38:44] Nick Graham: People ultimately we’re trying to reach. But you, you will bring, you will learn and you will bring back if you want to come back into insights and analytics, a much deeper understanding of how to influence the organization and what decisions you’re trying to trying to impact. So I think that’s a, a [00:39:00] good piece of advice.

[00:39:01] Nick Graham: Um, last of all, generally I think Oxana, as you sort of think forward the next three to five years. Are you an optimist or are you pessimist? Do you think about the, the future role of the Insights Analytics teams? 

[00:39:15] Oksana Sobol: Uh, uh, well, uh, so this is, this is a good opportunity to kind of tie it all together, what we spoke, uh, about today, Nick.

[00:39:24] Oksana Sobol: And, um, I think my main message is, um, the future is bright for insights and analytics, uh, when we are delivering. Value that is clearly tangible for the organization. Yeah. And for us right now, it is, we want to bring growth ideas to the table and we want to bring better business decisions and play a greater role in shaping those decisions.

[00:39:50] Oksana Sobol: And then also in activating those decisions, what needs to happen, um, for that is. One. Keeping in mind you now have a [00:40:00] broader span of influence, and this is where being the T tape T-shaped professional, um, really comes to shine because you can lead by envisioning and shaping big outcomes. And that’s what leadership means now, uh, second is anchoring your growth ideas and business decisions by focusing on what the business must do.

[00:40:22] Oksana Sobol: Supported by insights. So flipping where we are spending our time and effort. Uh, and then finally, you know, to succeed. The key skills that, um, are trending now are data safe, understanding, predicting, harnessing human behavior, um, and influencing. And, and with that, I’m very optimistic that our influence is.

[00:40:46] Oksana Sobol: Uh, broadening is becoming that air and water that surrounds the organizations that move faster and make decisions at all levels everywhere simultaneously. [00:41:00] 

[00:41:02] Nick Graham: Well, I think we have to leave it there ’cause I don’t really know where else we could go from there. I think we’re so far up the benefit ladder now in terms of impact or the impact ladder, but no, sincerely oxana.

[00:41:10] Nick Graham: I hugely appreciate it. I think that was a really. I think a really inspiring, energizing, thought provoking, challenging, I think for some people, perspective, right? Aware of what the business really wants from insights and what it’s gonna take for us to be, um, be able to evolve and to maximize, as you say, the opportunity that, um, that clearly is in front of us.

[00:41:31] Nick Graham: So thank you again, Oxana. I think that was fantastic. Um, really helpful, really. Um, interesting. I think for our, for our, uh, viewers and, sorry, I’ll do that last bit again. Um, so thank you so much, Oxana. I think that was incredible. Uh, conversation could have gone on for many more hours, but we’ll have to cut it short now so that uh, we don’t lose the rest of our, our audience.

[00:41:55] Nick Graham: So thank you so much and thank you everyone for listening to the latest episode of the Insights and [00:42:00] Innovators podcast. Until next time, I’m Nick Graham. 

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