How to Practice Authentic, Multicultural Research with Kai Fuentes

[00:00:00] Kai Fuentes: The first mistake that people make all the time is. Not hiring the people who look like who you are talking to or trying to talk to. 

[00:00:09] MRII Announcer: Welcome to MRII’s Insights and Innovators podcast where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices.

[00:00:20] MRII Announcer: Now here’s your host for today’s episode. 

[00:00:22] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Hey everyone. Welcome to today’s episode, Cultural Nuance and the business of multicultural research. I’m your host, Z Johnson. Our guest, Kai Fuentes is the founder and president of Ebony Marketing Systems, a multicultural, multilingual research firm that helps organizations learn to customers through a truly inclusive lens.

[00:00:44] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Kai is a second generation researcher, a self-described market research brat, and she’s built her company around one big idea. Research must. Be culturally aligned, respectful and empathetic, if it’s gonna be accurate [00:01:00] and actionable. Today we’ll talk about what authentic, multicultural research looks like, how to train and protect teams in the field, and what it takes to thrive as a business owner in this space.

[00:01:10] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Kai. Welcome. It is absolutely delightful to have you here. Thank you for being here. 

[00:01:15] Kai Fuentes: Yay. I’m so excited to be here. Um, this is a highly regarded podcast, so I’m super excited and so honored to talk with folks today. Talk with you today. 

[00:01:27] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Thank you. So, let’s talk a little bit about Culture Nuance, making it the centerpiece of your work for researchers or marketers who want to reach diverse audiences, but.

[00:01:40] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Might not really have that deep experience in doing cultural nuanced work. What’s the biggest mistake you see them make in this? 

[00:01:50] Kai Fuentes: I see folks not, I. Lining up who we’re, who’s interviewing with, who we’re talking to, who we’re speaking with. [00:02:00] For instance, I’m gonna give a per, I’m gonna give you an an example, and this is, these are all, all the examples I gi I give are real examples.

[00:02:08] Kai Fuentes: So, um, somebody reached out, a company reached out to me, um, about some hair care, hair care for black women. I. Previously I did a lot of haircare beauty work. It’s kind of like, it’s, it’s a thing I love. I enjoy doing that kind of work. 

[00:02:24] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Cool. 

[00:02:24] Kai Fuentes: Anyway, there were, the client reached out and was like, you know, I’m not getting the responses that I think and that I need to get, and there’s, there’s, there’s a blockage here.

[00:02:33] Kai Fuentes: I don’t know what’s wrong. 

[00:02:36] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Well, 

[00:02:36] Kai Fuentes: he was a white male and he thought that he was, yeah, he thought he was. He thought he could speak to black women about our hair. 

[00:02:51] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Mm. 

[00:02:52] Kai Fuentes: And the nuance there, one is that, you know, black women were very protective about our hair and how we [00:03:00] style and all the things. It’s, it’s our crown.

[00:03:02] Kai Fuentes: Hence the Crown Act. Right? Um, but he really thought that he was able to dive deeper, right. And that’s a perfect example of somebody coming in and not being respectful of the community in that way. So, um, when I took over and started doing the interviews, surprise, surprise, we had all kinds of deeper insights, quality insights.

[00:03:34] Kai Fuentes: They trusted me. There’s a conversation that’s spoken, that’s not spoken when you meet somebody. From your heritage, ethnicity, race, background, there’s a commonality there that’s like, Hey, okay, we, we good, we are aligned. 

[00:03:56] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:03:57] Kai Fuentes: Like I wouldn’t go and try to do a API [00:04:00] interviews. 

[00:04:00] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:04:02] Kai Fuentes: Right. Like we have a staff at Ebony that does that.

[00:04:06] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Right. 

[00:04:06] Kai Fuentes: Um, you know, and it also depends on what you’re talking about. Now I don’t, I don’t want it to think that you always have to culturally align, but on same things like hair, food, lifestyle. 

[00:04:18] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yes. 

[00:04:18] Kai Fuentes: Automotive work. Mm. Not really. That’s, you don’t have to, right. Right. But for the most part, it’s very important to be culturally aligned.

[00:04:27] Kai Fuentes: There’s things that, nuances that cultures say to each other. 

[00:04:32] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yep. 

[00:04:32] Kai Fuentes: That you wanna make sure that you’re capturing. Yeah. Um, there’s all kinds of nuances as a, I’m a black Latina, but there’s all kinds of nuances when I speak to, you know, other black women that I can interpret and then tell the, and then, you know, and then tell the client, right?

[00:04:52] Kai Fuentes: Like, Hey, listen, this is the nuance that I’m feeling. This is what I’m feeling. So the first mistake that people make all the time is not [00:05:00] hiring the people who look like who you are talking to or trying to talk to. 

[00:05:05] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:06] Kai Fuentes: And I think, you know, sometimes people run into issues of cost factors. I get that.

[00:05:11] Kai Fuentes: Like if you’re a moderator and you don’t wanna sub it out because you wanna keep things in house, I get it. And sometimes it’s a hard, it’s a hard thing to sell to a client to say, Hey, this research is gonna be 10 to 15% more multicultural. Research is not cheap. If you wanna do it the right way, it is a little bit more expensive than, um, than than other research, but 

[00:05:34] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: right.

[00:05:34] Kai Fuentes: It’s important if you wanna get the insights, if you wanna get those deep down golden aha nuggets, it’s imperative. Imperative to have people who you’re talking to look like the people that you, that, that are interviewing the people that you are talking to. Culturally aligned. 

[00:05:54] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Now. That cultural [00:06:00] alignment.

[00:06:00] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: You talk, you’re talking here about the moderator and the person that they’re talking with. 

[00:06:06] Kai Fuentes: Correct. 

[00:06:06] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Tell me a little bit more, let’s dig a little bit deeper into the recruitment process as well as the questions even that you’re asking, and then the analysis. Dig into that a little bit more and what that looks like when you are really wanting to look for that cultural alignment through the entire process.

[00:06:25] Kai Fuentes: Yeah, same rules apply, really. So if we are, um, I’m gonna give you, I’m gonna give you another example. Mm-hmm. We were doing some black research and we had one of, you know, things weren’t. It was just really crazy. Everybody was just, it was fourth quarter. Everybody was just trying to dig in and, and get these projects done.

[00:06:50] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:06:51] Kai Fuentes: And we had one of our A API folks speak to one of our respondents who was a, a black, [00:07:00] trying to get into the A group, but we needed black African American, not black Caribbean. 

[00:07:07] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Okay. 

[00:07:07] Kai Fuentes: They mistakenly recruited the black Caribbean. As a black recruiter, I would’ve been able to pick up almost immediately before even getting to, and that’s gonna bring me to the question part.

[00:07:24] Kai Fuentes: Yeah. These questions also need to be aligned, but getting back to the example, you know. That person shouldn’t have even made it. They didn’t make it to the group, but they made it to the grid and that was Yeah. You know, and supervisor, supervisor looked over, it was like, no, this, this ain’t it. Right. That person doesn’t fit.

[00:07:42] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Right. 

[00:07:42] Kai Fuentes: So that one example of, you know, that nuance again, of understanding that person’s culture. So it really begins from the recruitment process. 

[00:07:56] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:07:57] Kai Fuentes: There’s also something, oh, go ahead. 

[00:07:59] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: [00:08:00] I I want to call out something here because, and I think you’ll, you’ll agree with this, uh, uh, you’re talking about the difference between black African American versus black Caribbean in the Latina sit in the Latin culture.

[00:08:15] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: There’s, you know, when I was at Microsoft, um, working in the, uh, the OLA group, the Hispanic, um. Group within the marketing organization, we would constantly be reminded. Not all Hispanics are alike, not all Latinos are alike. You had the Mexicans, the Brazilians, and the Brazilians would often come up and say, guys, you keep forgetting about us.

[00:08:39] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: We don’t even speak Spanish. We’re speaking Portuguese over here. You can’t just put HOLA. You need to remember that we say OLA with a different accent on the different LA on the different vowel. Like 

[00:08:51] Kai Fuentes: that’s right. 

[00:08:52] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: There are even within, within these categories, you have subcategories and that cultural alignment [00:09:00] has to resonate within each subcategory throughout.

[00:09:04] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Like you have to really consider it through the entire category itself, right? You can’t just say, oh sure, I’m gonna go look for this skin color. I can’t. I’m just gonna go look for this top level diversity I, you have to think through that. 

[00:09:22] Kai Fuentes: You’re 1010%, right? Yes. So, you know, in the, the black diaspora you have black African Americans.

[00:09:29] Kai Fuentes: Those that were born here in there were your, you know, from slaves. Yeah. Then you have your black Caribbeans. 

[00:09:39] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:09:39] Kai Fuentes: And you have your, like myself, black Latinas too. 

[00:09:42] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:09:42] Kai Fuentes: Um, and it’s, it’s important that each segment, each demographic. Is broken out accordingly. 

[00:09:51] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:09:52] Kai Fuentes: Um, we’ve, we’ve been doing a lot of that with a lot of our, with a lot of our, you know, black research where we are [00:10:00] making sure that we represent, if we, if they’re just looking for black, let’s say we’re making sure we’re representing.

[00:10:06] Kai Fuentes: Diaspora blackness. We’re making sure we’re representing the diaspora of a API, the diaspora of Latinos, you know? Right. Um, to your point, all Latinos, aren’t we? We are not a monolith. 

[00:10:19] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yep, yep. 

[00:10:21] Kai Fuentes: I mean, look at the screen right now, right? Like.

[00:10:27] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:10:28] Kai Fuentes: You know? 

[00:10:29] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

[00:10:31] Kai Fuentes: yeah, yeah. But, um, 

[00:10:34] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: tell me a little bit about like the analysis and the moderating. Sorry, I, I cut you off. 

[00:10:39] Kai Fuentes: No, no, no. Not at all. I was, and I, I was about to, um, go into that too. And the analysis piece we find is. In all of our analysis, we have a cultural nuance page at the end of it.

[00:10:55] Kai Fuentes: You know, we have executive summary, you know, da, da, da. But we go deeper and have cultural [00:11:00] nuance where there’s certain things that are done or said that we interpret or translate for our clients. 

[00:11:09] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:11:09] Kai Fuentes: That comes directly from the moderator, you know, directly from the moderator. Um. And that’s really important ’cause that’s able to shed light on what this audience is thinking, what they’re feeling.

[00:11:25] Kai Fuentes: And it gives you a background really about who they are and, and, and all of those things. So the analysis, we do a two approach thing with an analytical writer on our team and also the moderator, you know? Yeah. Analysis, timing now has changed drastically. Clients used to give you two weeks, now they give you a week.

[00:11:51] Kai Fuentes: Now they give you two seconds. 

[00:11:53] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:11:54] Kai Fuentes: So, you know, because we have to turn out reports in two seconds. You [00:12:00] know, we have an, we have an analyst that is there. Beginning the, the, the skeleton part of the report. Then after the group’s idi, whatever are over, meet with the moderator and then they do this cultural alignment piece.

[00:12:14] Kai Fuentes: Mm-hmm. And we started doing that before the moderators were doing it. But you know, things have to happen a lot faster now, you know? Yeah. And it’s important to have an analytical lens, um, because we don’t use AI for our, um. For our reports. Yeah. It ain’t it. So. 

[00:12:33] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Um, when you are training teams for success, how do you teach them to how they can build trust with communities so that people are sharing genuine experiences and not just what they think the researcher wants to hear?

[00:12:54] Kai Fuentes: We found in building trust in communities. It’s, it’s also, it’s breaking [00:13:00] bread and building relationships. 

[00:13:02] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Hmm. 

[00:13:03] Kai Fuentes: A lot of it’s, it’s bigger than just the trust piece. It’s a relationship. We did a lot of work for, um, communities in Colorado. Difficult to reach populations, um, in Colorado it was, it was an amazing study with Colorado Health Survey and getting the word out about, you know, this particular survey to this said community.

[00:13:24] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:13:24] Kai Fuentes: And we found that prior to interviewing the community stakeholders, we had a time where our moderator had a zoom call with them in broke bread. And we kind of use that term a lot of Ebony, like, you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna go break bread with these folks and, you know, um, and he spent a lot of quality time with them on Zoom and it kept, it was a couple of conversations.

[00:13:50] Kai Fuentes: Then we recruited them. Then after we did the study and we got the analysis and findings, we came back and shared with them [00:14:00] the findings. That is one piece that a lot of. Folks forget if you’re interviewing, serving, studying a particular population, come back and tell ’em the findings. Mm. People just snatch up res research and run.

[00:14:15] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:14:15] Kai Fuentes: no, no, no, no. Come back. Come back and tell them. And that could be in an email, that can be on a zoom call that can be in person if you’re close enough. 

[00:14:25] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Right. 

[00:14:25] Kai Fuentes: And what that also does that also cultivates for future projects, potentially, 

[00:14:30] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: right. 

[00:14:31] Kai Fuentes: Other gatekeepers. It’s a relationship. 

[00:14:35] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:14:36] Kai Fuentes: So building a relationship is very important and with that comes trust.

[00:14:42] Kai Fuentes: And with that comes, okay, we’re gonna get deeper. We’re gonna get deeper findings here. 

[00:14:48] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:14:48] Kai Fuentes: And we trust you. 

[00:14:49] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:14:50] Kai Fuentes: So it, it, it takes, it takes time. Like for instance, that Colorado Health survey that we worked on, the recruiting process, and I know folks are gonna fall over when they [00:15:00] hear this, was about four weeks, four to five weeks.

[00:15:04] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:15:04] Kai Fuentes: We did multiple Zoom calls. We had to make sure people were gonna show to their one-on-one interviews. It was, it was a, it was a journey. It was a real marathon, not a sprint. 

[00:15:15] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Right. Right.

[00:15:19] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: You’ve talked about training, making, or breaking multicultural research, especially because people learn in different ways. How do you build a training that works for diverse learning styles? 

[00:15:34] Kai Fuentes: We just literally started doing this. Now, like, not now, but like six months ago, you know. Okay. Um, this is a personal story.

[00:15:44] Kai Fuentes: Um, uh, my son was diagnosed with dyslexia, anxiety, and a DHD my younger, my younger son. And we were trying to figure out, you know, we, what’s his learning style? 

[00:15:57] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:15:58] Kai Fuentes: we, we couldn’t for a [00:16:00] while and he was having lots of hiccups in school. Um, we call them speed bumps. He likes to call ’em speed bumps, but he was, you know, information wasn’t resonating.

[00:16:10] Kai Fuentes: Um, he was seven not reading yet. Really? 

[00:16:13] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:16:14] Kai Fuentes: because dyslexia that, so we got him diagnosed and was like, okay, he has dyslexia. Now we know how to, now we know how you like to learn. 

[00:16:24] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:16:24] Kai Fuentes: And. That made me think about, oh man, our training packets are just like, this is just talking. This is not diverse. Right.

[00:16:35] Kai Fuentes: And we’re a company of diversity and we’re not training, we’re not training in a diverse way. 

[00:16:41] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:16:41] Kai Fuentes: So now we have video training packets, um, for folks, for recruiting, for project management. We have audio and we also have, you know, PowerPoints. And conversations. ’cause there’s like four different kinds [00:17:00] of, of learning.

[00:17:00] Kai Fuentes: You have your visual, you have your audit, auditory learning, you have your seeing, learning, I don’t even know word that, how that’s phrased, but all of these come together and it’s, it’s a diverse style. So it, it really came from a personal thing in my life that I was dealing with that I was like, oh no. We gotta, we gotta switch up the, the skis here.

[00:17:22] Kai Fuentes: This ain’t it. Yeah. And we found that as a result. And is it a heavy lift? Yes, it is. And I don’t want companies to think, ’cause we’re still in the process of changing a lot of our, um, training packets and training modules. So it’s a heavy lift. It’s um, but it’s worth it. It’s worth it because you’re gonna have longer employee of attention.

[00:17:49] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:17:50] Kai Fuentes: People are gonna wanna, you know, wanna stick around. This is a company that cares, that’s catering to my, to my learning style. This is a company that, that, that gives a damn [00:18:00] right. So, yeah. 

[00:18:00] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. I was gonna 

[00:18:01] Kai Fuentes: say, gonna point attention. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but we’re, we’re still in the process of doing it, but I realized after my son’s diagnosis that yeah, we gotta, we gotta switch it up a little bit.

[00:18:13] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. And I think as. I’ve noticed it feels like a society continues to e to evolve and we, we continue to learn. We’re learning about these different ways that we do learn, right? We’re learning about the fact that there is the way that A DHD might impact the way that people are able to take in information.

[00:18:39] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: And how much and how much time they might need to process information. And you have the different levels that they can take in and, and that definitely will impact how quickly someone can learn and how much time they need to absorb information and then be able to. Put that [00:19:00] information to work. 

[00:19:01] MRII Announcer: Damn. 

[00:19:02] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: And being able to go into a company that gets that and is like, okay, let’s figure out how we can work together and how we can work with you so that you can be successful here, I think makes a huge difference.

[00:19:13] Kai Fuentes: It makes a huge difference. You invest in your people, they invest in the company. It’s, and it’s just that simple. Just, yeah. And that investment is invaluable. Really? 

[00:19:24] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:19:25] Kai Fuentes: And, you know, people are, are less frustrated. They’re gonna stay, you know, like I said, employee retention. Um, if you know that folks are catering to your learning style, then you’re like, okay, great.

[00:19:36] Kai Fuentes: I I can, I can rock out here for a little bit. And on a side note, over the holiday, um. My son is reading at a second grade level now, so he’s caught up. 

[00:19:49] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: That’s 

[00:19:50] Kai Fuentes: awesome. And is reading chapter books. I just had to Proud Mama 

[00:19:53] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Moment. That’s awesome. Oh 

[00:19:54] Kai Fuentes: yeah. 

[00:19:54] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Oh yeah. Oh, that’s, that’s great. 

[00:19:58] Kai Fuentes: In six 

[00:19:59] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: months. That is so [00:20:00] great.

[00:20:00] Kai Fuentes: Yeah. Yeah. He read to me the other night and I was like, oh man. You know, like these kids just pull out your heartstrings. 

[00:20:08] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:20:08] Kai Fuentes: Really do. 

[00:20:09] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. Let’s switch gears a little bit again, and let’s talk about life as a business owner, huh? Exactly. 

[00:20:23] Kai Fuentes: Woo. 

[00:20:24] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: You are a second generation researcher turned founder. And you have built, and you have now actually sustained this, this company of yours, Ebony Marketing Systems.

[00:20:39] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: What have you learned in this process of building and, and sustaining this organization? 

[00:20:46] Kai Fuentes: Hmm. Oof. I’ve learned so much. Um, one, oh my god, cha uh, I’m gonna use some wine, but. [00:21:00] One thing I’ve learned is give yourself grace.

[00:21:08] Kai Fuentes: Yeah. Grace really. And the power of the pivot. And in that order, so not, it’s okay. Things are going to, I don’t like to say mistakes. Because I feel like these are all learnings and findings and all the things. 

[00:21:33] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Sure. 

[00:21:33] Kai Fuentes: But being able to pivot sometimes, and that could be pivoting financially, that could be pivoting in what direction you want, you wanna take the business in.

[00:21:45] Kai Fuentes: That could be pivoting on the kind of clients that you wanna attract. We did a pivot in 2017 when I had my second son, um, from consumer research to social science research. And [00:22:00] that pivot happened because I was, I really wanted to start doing great work in communities and that was power that meant something to me.

[00:22:10] Kai Fuentes: So we pivoted and it, and it’s, and it’s working and we’re. We are a social science research company as well, and we’re proud of that. 

[00:22:19] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:22:19] Kai Fuentes: so grace pivoting and also being able to not react when you’re emotional. 

[00:22:33] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:22:36] Kai Fuentes: because emotions will run high and as a business owner, people will test you. Clients will test you.

[00:22:46] Kai Fuentes: You know? Um, employees will test you. Yeah, you’ll test you. And the less you react in a flurry of emotion, [00:23:00] the better you get that email that pisses you off. Yeah, don’t respond right then and there. Great. Take a little wsa moment. Go outside, go downstairs. Do have some tea. Whatever. 

[00:23:13] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah, 

[00:23:13] Kai Fuentes: I found that that has helped me tremendously.

[00:23:17] Kai Fuentes: I used to react to everything in a, you know, kind of like a, an emotional way. This is my baby, you know? 

[00:23:27] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Oh, yeah. 

[00:23:27] Kai Fuentes: Now, now she’s 14, you know, 15, you know, so she’s a teen and sometimes giving me some teen. Teen drama, teen, yellow teen drama going on little sass. So I’m like, okay, mama’s holding on, but it’s really like, it’s my baby.

[00:23:43] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:23:43] Kai Fuentes: And you know when, when you don’t react to your children with high emotion, isn’t it a better outcome? 

[00:23:52] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:23:53] Kai Fuentes: Then when you take a moment. And then giving yourself grace. Like that’s just, that’s [00:24:00] just, I, I And you and I keep saying that. ’cause I think I’m like preaching. I’m preaching to the choir on that.

[00:24:06] Kai Fuentes: Really? ’cause I’m in Incre. I’m probably the hardest on myself than anybody. 

[00:24:10] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Sure. 

[00:24:10] Kai Fuentes: We all are. 

[00:24:12] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Oh 

[00:24:12] Kai Fuentes: yeah. We as humans, we all are. And I have to constantly remind myself, you got this. It’s, it’s grace. Oh, and another thing too. One more thing I learned. You deserve to be in the rooms that you’re in and that imposter syndrome.

[00:24:31] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yep. 

[00:24:32] Kai Fuentes: Every room you’re in. And there’s gonna be times you’re gonna be in rooms, you’re like, should I be here? Absolutely. Should I take up space? Take it up all. Take up all the space. It’s okay. It’s okay. You know? So living in your truth, living in your light, that comes with time. I just figured all that out like two years ago, literally.

[00:24:54] Kai Fuentes: So 

[00:24:55] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: yeah, no, 

[00:24:57] Kai Fuentes: I just literally, it all just clicked like recently. [00:25:00] 

[00:25:00] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. It takes time and it takes experience, right? Sure enough. And it, it’s just constantly, and then once you do figure it out, it takes more time and experience to just keep reminding yourself, keep coming back, keep coming back. 

[00:25:14] Kai Fuentes: And then as you climb more, there’s other things that come that you didn’t even think.

[00:25:19] Kai Fuentes: And that’s what I say it for business owners all the time. We are challenged, all of our insecurities, all of our fears, all of all those things. As a business owner comes like. It just gets presented to you. Yeah. So for, uh, which I still am, I am a firm believer in therapy. I’m a firm believer in therapy for all people.

[00:25:40] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:25:41] Kai Fuentes: But for business owners, you know, because we are faced with all kinds of different things that folks don’t talk about or think about. Emotionally, um, things that bring you back to your childhood, especially for me as a business owner, I relive my childhood almost every day, right? [00:26:00] Because there’s things that I’ve watched my mom do, watched my parents do, do I wanna do it that way, do I not?

[00:26:04] Kai Fuentes: And I’m taken back to the 9-year-old Kai often, and I’m like, wait, oh, wait, wait. Should I. So therapy has been amazing for me to differentiate that. No, Kai. Kai is my nickname is a, is a is a kid, and Kai is here. And you got this. 

[00:26:25] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Yeah.

[00:26:28] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: Kai, this has been such a thoughtful conversation. Thank you so much. You’ve reminded us multicultural research isn’t just a box to check, it’s about designing with cultural empathy from the ground up. You’ve reminded us that training respects different learning styles makes us stronger, and it reminds us that caring for our employees and about how they, how they learn, and how they operate is worth the time and worth the investments.

[00:26:58] Zontziry “Z” Johnson: And thank you so much for [00:27:00] sharing your expertise in your story. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning into today’s episode. Until next time, I’m your host z Johnson. 

[00:27:09] Kai Fuentes: Thank you for having me. 

[00:27:11] MRII Announcer: Thanks for joining the Insights and Innovators podcast for Market Research Institute International. Click subscribe to never miss an episode, and visit us@ri.org for more market research insights.