How Research Leaders Start Over with Stan Sthanunathan

[00:00:00] Stan Sthanunathan: A year down the road, you know, they look at the trend actually taking off in a big way. Then they say, oh damn, didn’t I hear about this a year ago? And that is something that AI can do because. It doesn’t have any personal bias. 

[00:00:15] MRII Announcer : Welcome to MRII’s Insights and Innovators podcast, where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices.

[00:00:26] MRII Announcer : Now here’s your host for today’s episode. 

[00:00:29] Niels Schillewaert: Hi everyone. Welcome to another MRII podcast in the series, Insights and Innovators. Today’s episode is about when leaders start over. I’m your host for today. My name is Niels I’m the head of research and methodologies at Conveo.ai. Our guest today, Stan Sthanunathan probably doesn’t need much introduction for many of you, uh, as he’s one of the most respected names and leaders in our industry, in the insights world at [00:01:00] large.

[00:01:01] Niels Schillewaert: Stan has had a career that spans senior global roles at Unilever and Coca-Cola. Um, but when he retired or announced his retirement at Unilever, it’s not exactly what happened. I would dare to say that Stan is now rewiring, he’s adding actually a very bold chapter to his already rich career. Stan is now the co-founder and executive chairman of ig e, uh, which is a company that uses generative AI to unlock insights within corporations much more powerfully as well as efficiently, uh, than ever before.

[00:01:38] Niels Schillewaert: In the episode with Stan, we will talk about what it means to reinvent yourself, what AI means for the future of our industry. And also I would love to hear from Stan how the, you know, next phases in, uh, insights and its evolution will unfold and take shape. Stan, thank you very much for joining us today.

[00:01:59] Niels Schillewaert: [00:02:00] Thank you, Neil. 

[00:02:00] Stan Sthanunathan: Thanks. 

[00:02:01] Niels Schillewaert: Great. Stan, let’s start with the pivot question. You know, you have this awesome career in corporate leadership. What made you decide to pivot to a startup environment like, uh, ig E? 

[00:02:17] Stan Sthanunathan: That’s a great question. You know, I wish I have a very clear cut answer for that. You know, when I retired from Unilever, uh.

[00:02:25] Stan Sthanunathan: I basically wanted to do a year or two of consulting, and then after that, genuinely hang my boots and, you know, enjoy, uh, a life with, uh, my wife going around the world and so on. But then I asked myself a question, you know, um. Would I, can I see myself doing that for another 20, 25 years? I think it’s, the answer was an emphatic no.

[00:02:48] Stan Sthanunathan: Uh, did I have enough energy and enthusiasm? Uh, the answer was an emphatic yes. So then the question is, what do you do? And, uh. I only describe myself as a one trick pony. I have [00:03:00] spent 40 years in the insights industry. So I said, you know, is there a way in which I can do something different in the space of insights, uh, which is more, uh, in tune with the, uh, you know, time today and also make the insights function.

[00:03:15] Stan Sthanunathan: Uh, in companies as well as the insights, uh, industry, a little bit different from what it has been, uh, over the career that I have spent. And that’s what resulted in, uh, me co-founding ig e with, uh, my partner, Paul van T. 

[00:03:32] Niels Schillewaert: Excellent, excellent. Um, but it is a different world, right, Stan? So what has been the hardest to adapt to, um, when you, when you think back?

[00:03:42] Stan Sthanunathan: Oh, I, I, I, where do I begin? You know, this is a big one because I have always worked in large companies. So you had a phenomenal support system. You know, I have never been an entrepreneur. Yeah. So I worked for large company. So you had all the way from a secretary to a legal function, to a [00:04:00] HR function, to a finance function.

[00:04:02] Stan Sthanunathan: Uh, and you had all those things, but when you start a company, you are everything, especially in your early days. You are the T boy and you are also the CEO of the company and everything in between. That to me, was a major, major challenge. You know, even simple thing like scheduling appointments and not, uh, you know, having double booking, uh, as a routine thing was a massive challenge.

[00:04:28] Stan Sthanunathan: So it was, it was fun in the early days. It might sound crazy for a lot of people, but you know, trust me, if you work for a large company, you take a lot of things for granted and those things don’t exist. You know, when you move into a, a startup world, and that was, uh, the biggest, biggest learning I had.

[00:04:46] Stan Sthanunathan: Simple thing like managing cash flow, you know, uh, talking to your CPA to find out, you know, how to file your tax return, what is, uh, expense that is allowed, what is not allowed? Blah, blah, blah. Do I have enough money in the bank to [00:05:00] pay salary for people? You know, those are challenges that you never thought about, you know, and that, that to me was much more daunting than actually doing the work for the company.

[00:05:10] Stan Sthanunathan: IE, you know, generating insight for a client. That was the easy part. But, you know, running the company was a much more difficult part for me. 

[00:05:18] Niels Schillewaert: Excellent. I can actually relate to that to be honest. 

[00:05:22] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, you’ve been an entrepreneur, so you know what I’ve done. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you comes probably naturally.

[00:05:27] Stan Sthanunathan: It does not come naturally to me. 

[00:05:29] Niels Schillewaert: Yeah. 

[00:05:30] Stan Sthanunathan: Kind of. 

[00:05:33] Niels Schillewaert: But on the flip side, what was, would you say that the corporate experience that helped shape, uh, iGen E? Because there’s obviously things that you took along. 

[00:05:43] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah, I think, I think the corporate experience is invaluable because having worked for two gigantic corporations like Coca-Cola and Unilever, I have a very good perspective on how insights are used to drive action, and that is a unique vantage [00:06:00] point that I have as I’m running my company because I am not selling at.

[00:06:04] Stan Sthanunathan: Tool or a technique. I always talk about, you know, the continuum, uh, in the insights industry, which is the what to the so what? To the now, what, you know, when you are on the client side, you are always single-mindedly focused on the now what, and sometimes on the so what? And you leave the what to the research agency.

[00:06:23] Stan Sthanunathan: Now clients are having one challenge today, you know, across, most of the clients I speak to, they’re all having resource constraint because, you know, if you look at the CPG world. The growth rates are not exactly what they want it to be, and therefore, you know, there is a lot of pressure all around justifiably so, and, uh, they don’t have enough resources internally.

[00:06:42] Stan Sthanunathan: So therefore, if a agency can actually come to them with the so what and the now ward, they actually, uh, welcome them with open arms. And that is one area where I spend my entire life doing nothing but that. And therefore, that gives me a very unique competitive advantage. 

[00:06:59] Niels Schillewaert: [00:07:00] Yeah, get that. So you’ve got the empathy, you’ve got the background.

[00:07:03] Niels Schillewaert: So that’s something, um, that you, you know, are able to take along and, and leverage that being since then, you, you didn’t just do a consultancy business or decided to be on board or anything like that from other companies. Um, you started a new company, uh, in the AI space. Mm-hmm. What was it, if we think about, you know, take it into, into the role and, and the impact of ai, what is it that, that excited you, uh, and that excites you the most when you think about AI’s?

[00:07:32] Niels Schillewaert: Impact for the insights world and industry at large? Okay. 

[00:07:37] Stan Sthanunathan: AI is impacting. Us in all walks of our life. Yeah, it is. You know, it’s not just in the business life, you know, even in our own personal life, it is affecting us. Uh, you, if you’re not using it, you probably might not be aware of, you know, the potential ways in which it can make your life better.

[00:07:55] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. Uh, and when I was looking at all that, you know, even back in my days at [00:08:00] Unilever, we were using ai. Uh, to see how we can improve the generation, uh, of insights. And that’s where the, you know, the idea was born. So to say, you know, how can we leverage ai? Uh, and I also genuinely felt that the insights industry.

[00:08:16] Stan Sthanunathan: Requires a fundamental transformation. The fundamental and the time has come. You know, we were relying way too much on the old ask questions, get answers kind of industry, and I genuinely believe that, you know, that has got a very strong role to play going forward. But the role is likely to become less and less.

[00:08:39] Stan Sthanunathan: Con speakers purely because people have incredibly busy lifestyle. Taking a 40 minute long questionnaire is not their primary preoccupation. And then, you know, concurrently I was also, you know, even through my career I’ve seen, you know, I’ve done accompanied interviews in various countries around the world.

[00:08:57] Stan Sthanunathan: I’ve sat through focus group discussions, you know, on a [00:09:00] personally moderated, maybe. 6 50, 700 focus groups in my life. And I’ve seen, you know, uh, up close what actually happens in these kind of settings. And sometimes I’m left wondering, you know, is the insight that I’m getting from those kind of things, is that really reflective of what is going on in the marketplace?

[00:09:18] Stan Sthanunathan: I’m not saying that it isn’t always not, but at times, you know, you are left wondering and that’s when, you know, I started asking myself a question. You know, are people ready to talk to us? Yeah. The the answer is, uh, people talk about us, but do not necessarily have time to talk to us because they are busy lifetime.

[00:09:41] Stan Sthanunathan: So when they do talk about us, they are talking on their own terms. They’re talking in their own environment. They are talking, uh, in a unfiltered, unguided way. If we can analyze that leveraging the power of ai, which is a new capability that was emerging in the marketplace, can we [00:10:00] not generate insights which are next generation insights, which are, you know, literally unfiltered insight from people.

[00:10:07] Stan Sthanunathan: And that excited me. And I’m not saying that, you know, this is something that will, you know, fundamentally replace everything that we do in the marketplace, but it has potential to actually, you know. Chisel away maybe 20, 30% of the traditional approach. And that is where the real excitement lies for me.

[00:10:27] Niels Schillewaert: Yeah, exactly. We’ll come back to that topic in a second, but, um, can you make it concrete, based on your experience now, um, a recent example where AI delivered surprising value to you, where it made a difference that without the AI wouldn’t have been possible. Do you have any examples of that? 

[00:10:44] Stan Sthanunathan: No. You know.

[00:10:46] Stan Sthanunathan: I have to be honest here, you know? Does it do that every time? Probably not. But does it do it faster? Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Now when I look at, you know, what, how time is spent by an A [00:11:00] researcher, whether you are on the agency side or on the client side, there’s phenomenal amount of time that is spent on doing the grant work.

[00:11:07] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. And. At the end of it, you’re exhausted and you’re sitting there and saying, okay, you know what? Let’s just put this report out to the client, uh, get the final payment and move on. Uh, or if it is on the client side, they would say, you know what? I’m, there’s like a tsunami of data coming at me. I’ll just cherry pick what suits me for the time being and then move on.

[00:11:27] Stan Sthanunathan: Now where I see AI is actually, you know, making the grunt work. Go down significantly, and that it enhances your ability to think and focus on the so what and the now what. And that’s what I see that happening. So I’ll, I’ll give you a, a couple of really good examples of, you know, where AI played a, a, a significant role, right?

[00:11:50] Stan Sthanunathan: So, you know, we were talking about identifying, you know, ingredient trends, claims, trends and benefits, trends, and so on. Now [00:12:00] you can get completely lost in the process if you really try to go down the traditional route. But when you. Analyze, you know, diverse sets of data. We were able to identify trends in a category, which usually clients look at and say, really?

[00:12:19] Stan Sthanunathan: Could that be a real thing? Uh, but then when they. Spend six months, seven months, and then they see a small entrepreneur launching something in that same space. Then they turn on and say, oh, maybe this trend is actually good. Uh, a year down the road. You know, they look at the trend actually taking off in a big way.

[00:12:38] Stan Sthanunathan: Then they say, oh damn, didn’t I hear about this a year ago? And that is something that AI can do because. It doesn’t have any personal bias. It is just, you know, ferociously plowing through data ferociously applying algorithms. To come up with something out there and it has got no human bias. It is not biased [00:13:00] by what my wife thinks is a greater shampoo or what I think is the greater hair regrowth formula.

[00:13:06] Stan Sthanunathan: It doesn’t care about it. Mm-hmm. All that it guess what is data and what people are talking and it suddenly brings a kind of scale that was otherwise not possible Before. You can do 500 respondent, a thousand respondents ready, 15 focus groups, but here we are talking about. You know, we analyze 71 billion searches.

[00:13:26] Stan Sthanunathan: The best example that I would give you is if I ask you a survey questionnaire saying, what are the top five stains, uh, that you want to remove from your laundry? You typically say, you know, oil grease and, you know, food stains and so on and so forth, and, you know, and you read all that. It all makes tremendous intuitive sense, but go and analyze what people are searching for.

[00:13:51] Stan Sthanunathan: The number two search trend on stains is blood stain. Mm-hmm. Right now, do you think. A man or [00:14:00] a woman would respond to in a survey saying that bloodstreams is the most important thing because it is a little bit awkward. Or, you know, I mean, I know this is not a relevant example for you or me, um, but if I, uh, ask, uh, guy, you know, how many of us would actually post on a Facebook and that guys, I’m having a hair loss problem.

[00:14:19] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. Do you have any solutions for that? You don’t want to declare that to the world, or if you have a black patch on your skin, you don’t want to declare that to the world, but you’d surely go and search for it in the privacy of Google or whatever. Searching in your use and analyzing that at scale is the one that actually helps you to understand what is keeping people awake at night.

[00:14:38] Stan Sthanunathan: That is something that is possible only with the use of AI because it helps you to understand. The data at scale and analyze it at scale and spit out insights at scale. 

[00:14:50] Niels Schillewaert: Yeah. Interesting. So there’s a number of things that you say, right? Uh, first of all, people still have breath, you know, by the time they get to the added value.

[00:14:59] Niels Schillewaert: So all the [00:15:00] tedious stuff is getting out. Um, it actually removes some of the bias that we all as executives have, and marketers, you know, we always think that we are our customer or consumer, and it’s not the case. And then also from the. You know, participant side, from the consumer side, from the human side, um, you know, they’ll, they’ll behave, uh, more naturally when interacting with ai and an ai, AI can pick that up.

[00:15:23] Niels Schillewaert: Okay. Uh, very interesting. Um, there’s been and look like with every technology stand. Um, there’s always the peak and then there’s this, um, you know, phase of disillusionment. Um, there’s been some, uh, discussions going on in MIT article recently that was released. Um, so when you look at it, are we over hyping anything?

[00:15:45] Niels Schillewaert: Is there anything where AI falls short in your opinion? 

[00:15:48] Stan Sthanunathan: I, I, I, you know, I think one has to be very, very, very conscious of that. That’s a great point that you’re making. If we all start believing that AI is the, the holy grail, it’ll solve all [00:16:00] the world’s problem. Uh, I don’t believe so. I don’t believe so. I think human creativity is something that you should never, ever underestimate.

[00:16:10] Stan Sthanunathan: All that I’m saying is that, you know, look, let human creativity. Work, unleash human creativity. Don’t bog it down with grunt work. And that is where I see AI playing a role. Take away the grunt work so that humans can become very creative. The second thing is, you know, what do you classify? What do you use AI for is very important.

[00:16:34] Stan Sthanunathan: And I always use the metaphor, pink lipstick on a pig. Yeah. Uh, so if you use AI to generate questionnaire. Yes, it is legitimate in the sense, you know, you’re taking away the grant work of writing the questionnaire. Fantastic. Thank you so much. If you use AI to analyze the data and come up with a draft report, that also takes away the grant work, that’s also legitimate, but at the core is still asking people [00:17:00] and getting answers.

[00:17:00] Stan Sthanunathan: Right? Mm-hmm. Another question is, you know, are people giving and telling you the truth? You know, I always ask people, you know, if you’re in a committed relationship, did you administer a long five point scale based questionnaire to decide whether you should get into a relationship as a person or not?

[00:17:16] Stan Sthanunathan: The answer is no. You listen to your heart. So that, that brings in another dimension of, you know, when people express their feelings, you know, in an unfettered way, in an environment where they feel comfortable, that’s where you get the real insight. So, you know, don’t, you know, just do AI in the front end, AI at the back and say, you know what I’m doing?

[00:17:34] Stan Sthanunathan: Ai, AI has to be at the core, you know, in, in the sense, you know, how you collect information. I have a different, you know, a cheeky definition of ai, which you might or might not like, but I always say AI is augmenting intelligence. Mm-hmm. It is not artificial intelligence because what is the opposite of artificial intelligence?

[00:17:55] Stan Sthanunathan: Natural stupidity. Yeah. So are we all naturally stupid? [00:18:00] Absolutely. No. You know, we are, you know, uh, I can tell you that, you know, 99% of the insights professionals in this world have IQ levels which are way, way higher than average human beings. You know, if you can only augment their intelligence with a little bit of power of ai.

[00:18:17] Stan Sthanunathan: They will be a force to reckon with. You know, the age old conversation of having a seat at the table will go away like that because you’ll be adding value, so much value to the business that people will turn on. Take. Come, you know, I need your opinion. So never ever for a minute, assume that AI is a substitute for human intuition or human judgment.

[00:18:38] Stan Sthanunathan: It is augmenting human intuition, augmenting judgment, but it is powered by a much more holistic view of the world rather than your personally biased point of view. That’s all I’m saying. 

[00:18:49] Niels Schillewaert: Absolutely agree with that. Um, I, I often say that an AI gives you superpowers in whatever you do. Right? Bingo. So bingo, you know, it lifts you up.

[00:18:57] Niels Schillewaert: Um, so it’s maybe a little bit of [00:19:00] a different, uh, thing to, to formulate it or a way to formulate it. You mentioned creativity, um, and, you know, judgment, uh, that that’s something that’s, you know, still gonna be for, for humans. What’s your experience is the question I often get. What’s your experience with.

[00:19:16] Niels Schillewaert: Ai being able to grasp cultural, uh, nuances. Uh, can it do that? Does it struggle with it? Will that improve? What’s your take on that? 

[00:19:25] Stan Sthanunathan: I think at the end of the day, eventually it’ll improve, but is it where it needs to be today? I don’t think it is where it needs to be. It has made huge progress. As I say, every two months, the capability of ai, AI is getting doubled.

[00:19:39] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. That is the speed at which, you know, change is happening. So. It’ll get better, but I genuinely, genuinely believe that there is no substitute to human centricity. Mm-hmm. Zero substitute to human centricity. It is much more important in today’s world than ever before [00:20:00] because, you know, you ask yourself a question.

[00:20:02] Stan Sthanunathan: If I ask myself a question, do you and me actually represent the consumers of, you know, an average day to day product like a shampoo or a. Uh, laundry det or a soda or whatever it is. We don’t, we belong to a slightly upper income group. Uh, so strata the society. Do we even know what keeps, you know, the middle and lower income group, people awake at night?

[00:20:26] Stan Sthanunathan: We have a point of view. We do research and we think we know them, but we don’t know them intimately. And understanding them intimately is all around human centricity. Empathy, not sympathy. It is a real unlock to getting genuine insights today. There’s a heavy overdose of sympathy and people turn and say, oh, this poor consumer.

[00:20:46] Stan Sthanunathan: No, they’re not poor. They’re happy people. They’re probably happier than you and me with whatever they have. But do we know what makes them happy? Do we know? You know, I mean, we think that, you know, money buys happiness. Yeah. You know, money buys happiness. When I have a cynical [00:21:00] point of view on money, you know, if you.

[00:21:02] Stan Sthanunathan: It, it’s better to, uh, cry inside a, a, a luxury car than Si cry on a bicycle. Yeah. Uh, yeah. To that section, you know, money makes a difference, but doesn’t genuinely buy happiness. No. But there are people who are. You know, living in small tenements and they’re quite happy. But understanding why they’re happy is a, is a critical skill and therefore human-centric is important.

[00:21:24] Stan Sthanunathan: And I don’t think AI is really there in terms of providing that human-centric understanding of people. So there is no subcu to real connections with people. 

[00:21:33] Niels Schillewaert: Yeah. That’s very good news. Um. And if you would now advise or would have to advise, let’s look at professionals that are a little bit early in the career or mid-career.

[00:21:45] Niels Schillewaert: What, according to you, um, so they’re not in leadership, but what, according to you, are the skills and the mindset that’s most critical for them to thrive, uh, in, in this new ai, uh, area or era. [00:22:00] 

[00:22:00] Stan Sthanunathan: I would say there are three, uh, core skills that you need to focus on. The first and foremost is, you know, stay up to date with the technological development that are happening.

[00:22:10] Stan Sthanunathan: Yeah. It’s, it’s a non option. Yeah. But I also believe that is stable table stakes. Yeah. Because there’ll be a lot of people who will stay abreast to technological upgrade. So you need to, you know, be. At the sharp end of that thing. So invest time, money, do not either. I don’t have time. If you don’t have time for yourself.

[00:22:29] Stan Sthanunathan: Who do you have time for is a question, right? So you spend time upskilling yourself, but there are two other skills that will actually make you a, a differentiated and successful professional. Number one is curiosity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, curiosity, uh, is the one that will make you ask the question why.

[00:22:49] Stan Sthanunathan: Multiple times. And the more you ask the question why that is when you get to the real reason why something is happening or someone is doing [00:23:00] whatever they’re doing. So curiosity is very important. The next question within that is, why not? Yeah. The, uh, you know, why not? Uh, the more you challenge everything, that’s when you know.

[00:23:11] Stan Sthanunathan: You look at the reports spitted out by ai, and you look when you start layering on top of that, why and why not. That is when you’d sit, sit there and say, wow, you know, I can add something. Otherwise, you know, these are AI write reports that are grammatically perfect, beautifully written. You can’t possibly write a good report like that.

[00:23:32] Stan Sthanunathan: What’s your role? So that’s a question that people have. Your role is to be curious and challenge why and why not, and take it to the next level. The second, uh, soft skill that you surely, surely need to develop very aggressively is bravery. Okay. Uh, the bravery and boldness to deliver a message in a way in which, which.

[00:23:56] Stan Sthanunathan: It creates stomach cuddling experience for the [00:24:00] recipient. Yeah. AI doesn’t do that. It is you as an inside professional who can do it. You do that, you’ll be remembered long after you’re gone from the meeting. The, the challenge that I have for, uh, people is that, you know, people should not ask, uh, Stan who, but they should say, oh, Stan.

[00:24:23] Stan Sthanunathan: Because the day you create that, uh, and the way you create that is by creating, uh, a technically technical word called Oh shit. Experience. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and that is something that, you know, you have to create for people on an ongoing basis. You know, can AI create that? You know, I don’t see that happening in the near future, but even if it creates at a higher order than where it is today, you still would, if you develop that muscle at your end, you would always be one step ahead in terms of curiosity and in terms of bravery, and that is the one that keeps you ahead in the career.

[00:24:58] Stan Sthanunathan: That’s what I would say. [00:25:00] Start developing it now. You know, if you don’t do it now. It’s not a skill that will suddenly land like on on a parachute from the sky on your lap. It is a muscle that needs to be trained and developed. 

[00:25:13] Niels Schillewaert: Fantastic, great advice. So keep up with technology at a hygiene level.

[00:25:18] Niels Schillewaert: Curiosity and bravery, uh, are, are really things that, that, uh, people should develop, uh, in their career. Does that extend stand to leaders as well? So we, let’s, let’s close the circle. You know, you were at the leadership in, uh, in, in large corporations. Uh, what are the biggest mistakes that you see them, you know, making right now when it comes to integrating ai?

[00:25:40] Niels Schillewaert: Um, any advice for them? 

[00:25:43] Stan Sthanunathan: I think the, the advice is, you know, uh, um.

[00:25:49] Stan Sthanunathan: To, you know, if this read a report generated by AI and they think that that is GOs and truth, that’s probably a first step towards, uh, [00:26:00] becoming extinct as a breed. Yeah. Uh, think value edition. Think value edition. You know, if you really want. To be convinced that, you know, uh, you need to, uh, do something beyond what the AI generates as a report.

[00:26:15] Stan Sthanunathan: All that I would say is, you know, take four or five LLM models, uh, send the same question to all those four LLM models. Uh, you’ll find that the four models give you slightly different answers. Yeah, sometimes it can be quite significantly different answers. Now, ask yourself a question. If you had relied on just one model and you, uh, presented internally saying that, oh, this is what AI said, you might have made a mistake because that model might have made a mistake.

[00:26:45] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, the, the, the commonly used phrase in AI world is hallucination. And that is not a problem that the AI models have solved. They do hallucinate. The same model can give you two different answers on two different days or at the same day, uh, [00:27:00] from two different devices. It can give you two different answers.

[00:27:02] Stan Sthanunathan: So be careful. You know, do not for a minute assume that, uh, you know, anything that is written beautifully is gospel truth. It is like saying that, you know, oh, somebody who handsome or beautiful is actually smart. No, that’s not true, right? So, you know, the, you have to be very, very careful. The analogous situation today is that.

[00:27:24] Stan Sthanunathan: You know, don’t believe that you know, everything that looks good is actually good. Yeah. So you have to scratch the surface, dig a bit deeper. That’s why I say, you know, curiosity and bravery is actually required even at the leadership level. Because if the leader wanted that, people walking for them will say, oh my God, you know, I can see my leader doing it.

[00:27:44] Stan Sthanunathan: I better do it. And you are giving your people the permission and sanction to be curious and be brave. 

[00:27:52] Niels Schillewaert: Fantastic. Yeah. So some critical thinking is definitely, uh, uh, needed, uh, still. 

[00:27:59] Stan Sthanunathan: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:27:59] Niels Schillewaert: [00:28:00] Yeah. Okay. Stan? I, I think we’re, um. You know, through many of the topics that, that we have, uh, discussed, uh, or that we wanted to discuss in this, uh, in this, uh, session.

[00:28:12] Niels Schillewaert: Uh, I want to thank you Stan for, for pushing, uh, us to think differently, uh, and also with a critical mind, not just about ai, but also about leadership and skills and adaptability of people, um, as well as the future of our, uh, uh, profession. Um, as always, I think your, your insights do remind us that. You know, real progress, as you say, um, requires boldness or bravery as you mentioned, um, and that the leaders who, uh, will drive are those.

[00:28:41] Niels Schillewaert: That are willing to, you know, basically challenge, uh, convention, uh, and go beyond, uh, platitudes and, and really understand human beings, although, uh, we are using, uh, ai. So thank you again for that. Um, to everyone listening, uh, I believe or we do believe both [00:29:00] Stan and I and many people with us at MRII, that the future is unfolding fast.

[00:29:05] Niels Schillewaert: So whatever you heard today, um, as a call to action, uh, do something with it, rethink, disagree with us, uh, for sure. And, you know, put it into your own, uh, reality, but for sure lead. Uh, and, you know, with, with both courage, courage if you want, and, and clarity. Thank you so much all, everyone for, uh, joining us on this, uh, podcast Insights and Innovators, and hopefully we’ll see you next time.

[00:29:33] Stan Sthanunathan: Thank you. Thank you Niche. 

 

[00:29:35] MRII Announcer : Thanks for joining the Insights and Innovators podcast For Market Research Institute International. Click subscribe to never miss an episode and visit us@rii.org for more market research insights.