Cultivating a Culture of Service in Research Insights with Steve Schlesinger, Sago

[00:00:00] MRII Announcer: Welcome to MRII’s Insights Innovators podcast, where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices. Today’s episode is sponsored by Suzy. Suzy is the real time market research platform. Suzy’s audience powered tools enable research from start to finish, helping enterprises make more intelligent decisions.

[00:00:25] MRII Announcer: Now here’s your host for today’s episode.

[00:00:28] Jon Last: It’s rare in any industry for a family owned business to See significant re imagination and meteoric growth after the exit of the company’s founder. But Sago’s CEO, Steve Schlesinger, has been rewriting the rules for decades. He joins Insights and Innovators to share his perspectives on an incredible career of transformative growth and entrepreneurial passion.

[00:00:50] Jon Last: I’m John Last, president of Sports Leisure Research Group and a past president of MRII. From the moment we envisioned this podcast series, today’s guest was at the top of my personal list [00:01:00] of those that I wanted to feature. Steve Schlesinger has enjoyed a remarkable career that has seen him take the business that his mother started literally at her kitchen table and transformed it into Sago, a powerhouse oozing with innovation and constant evolution.

[00:01:14] Jon Last: But like any success story, it comes with unexpected detours along the way. And on a personal level, Steve has been a source of inspiration, a friend, confidant, and running mate over the course of my career. Which in simple terms means Steve that, you know, if we really wanted to tell stories on each other, they’d probably not be able to share this podcast with anybody else.

[00:01:33] Jon Last: So we’ll keep that, that, that, uh, between us, but it’s great to have you on this episode of insights and innovators and excited to, to, to join them in the conversation. Thanks, john. Great to be here with you. So you and I have been at this for a really long time and and longer than either of us want to admit, you know, I think we both say that we started when we were 10 years old.

[00:01:52] Jon Last: That’s, you know, what can explain the decades that are behind it? Um, but, you know, as we think back on that journey, where’s the industry [00:02:00] now? And what’s different about today when it comes to the shape and essential focus that that insights providers need to subscribe to?

[00:02:07] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah. So, I mean, I think, you know, when I look back and, you know, yes, it is decades.

[00:02:11] Steve Schlesinger: Um, uh, I, you know, I think about change, right? Like change to me is like sort of the, the theme of how I think about the industry. And, you know, when I go back 20, 30 years ago, there was always change happening. And John, when you and I got to know each other was at the very start of, you know, even the internet time of, of, you know, sort of, uh, internet surveys coming into, into practice and research and, um, you know, and change.

[00:02:35] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah. Has always happened, but it’s happened a lot slower than it happens now. So when you really think about, you know, maybe 20, 30 years ago, and then you fast forward to maybe 5, 10 years. ago, the, the, the speed by which we are now influenced by new methodologies, new technology, you know, AI, of course, will always come up in conversation, transformation.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Steve Schlesinger: Um, the fact that, you know, in my world, when I think about my competitive landscape, many of the companies that I think of as competitors today didn’t even exist. Five, 10 years ago. So, you know, the way that we have to sort of move our business, evolve our business, transform our business is very different in terms of speed, in terms of keeping relevant, um, and, and frankly, keeping, um, current with what our clients needs are and how they’re changing.

[00:03:27] Steve Schlesinger: So that’s how I sort of think about all this over time. And, um, and, you know, look, honestly, it’s a, it’s as interesting now as it’s ever been in our world in terms of, of what we’re doing for our clients.

[00:03:38] Jon Last: Yeah. And I think one of the unique things that, that, that you’ve always displayed to me is that, you know, you were always open to that change in that evolution, but, but I want to, you know, go back to the beginning, if you will.

[00:03:49] Jon Last: And, you know, your professional journey has just been such an incredible ride when, when you first got into business, obviously your mom started the company. Take our listeners [00:04:00] Schlesinger and associates begin to grow and become, you know, the leading operator of qualitative facilities. And then. evolve further into a much broader and diversified research provider.

[00:04:12] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah. So it is, I enjoy actually sort of counting back the past and sort of thinking through all the different steps and I call chapters of, of Schlesinger, which is now Sago. And the way that I sort of think about it is, you know, my mom sort of built this foundation and, you know, that happened over a course of many years doing what I think is really, really Excellent work for a whole host of pioneers in the research industry, people like George Gallup and Dan Yankovic and Lou Harrison, you know, early days of Nielsen and so on.

[00:04:45] Steve Schlesinger: And, um, you know, and then when I got involved, we started building out these facilities and that was sort of our next chapter of of growth and the opportunity to sort of expand across, um. You know, many geographies in the U. S. And then ultimately, we sort of, [00:05:00] you know, listen to our clients. And they said, you do all this great stuff for us in the U.

[00:05:03] Steve Schlesinger: S. Why couldn’t you do it globally for us? And that really took us on this path to, you know, growing, um, abroad, you know, uh, ultimately, um, Acquiring a whole bunch of businesses throughout Europe, um, starting to sort of morph into, you know, other things outside of facilities like technology, biometrics, eye tracking, things like that, ultimately adding quant as a capability to the business, which, you know, we were very much exclusively qual for a long time and, um, you know, and a lot of it has been driven by opportunity.

[00:05:38] Steve Schlesinger: It’s surely been driven by opportunity. You know what we heard from clients and you know where we thought the the world was going and And a lot of it too around what would make our clients lives easier when it came to servicing their research needs and Um, and we built around that and you know, it really has been a great journey.

[00:05:58] Steve Schlesinger: I think Our [00:06:00] core ethos is not all that different than it was when my mom started this business in the 60s. I think it’s, you know, roll up your sleeves, hard work, you know, good service, taking care of our clients, taking care of our team. Um, I don’t think any of that has changed. I think all that’s happened is we’ve modernized.

[00:06:16] Steve Schlesinger: And transformed as we’ve gone to really, you know, uh, accommodate to the market.

[00:06:22] Jon Last: So I want to dive into that a little bit deeper. You, you talked about service and I I’ve always, you know, when, when people would ask me about your business and, you know, who were considering, you know, using the facilities or using the services, the whole term of service was something that really resonated with me, because even as you began to scale the company.

[00:06:41] Jon Last: It still felt like a close knit family business. I mean, we’d come in and we’d visit and it was like seeing friends again when we worked together. And, and, and that really, I think transcends culture, which has become so much more important, um, these days in, in building and leading a business. Reflect a little bit on that [00:07:00] management philosophy and, and, and how you’ve maintained it as the organization has become so wide reaching.

[00:07:05] Jon Last: Yeah.

[00:07:06] Steve Schlesinger: So I think it’s. Even more interesting, the fact that service is such a critical component, it is what I’ve learned along the way, because, you know, John, if you think back, like, there has been this love affair, you know, probably dating back, you know, maybe at the start of the Internet, but maybe, you know, even a little bit further forward from there.

[00:07:27] Steve Schlesinger: Of this love affair of technology, right? You know, you go to conferences, you hear people talk and, you know, you even look at some of the new businesses in the in the industry and across the landscape. A lot of them are rooted in technology, and what’s fascinating to me is that as much as technology has become a part of our research and insights world, the truth is, is that services is.

[00:07:51] Steve Schlesinger: So critical to what we do. Um, and it hasn’t changed even with the, you know, the, the continual, you know, development of [00:08:00] great technology and, and, and, um, you know, and, and, uh, and the use of that technology in gathering data or in, you know, utilizing data. So. You know, I think I have made mistakes over the course of the years falling too in love with this concept of technology and falling prey to not focusing enough on the service element of what we deliver for clients.

[00:08:22] Steve Schlesinger: Our clients need our help. They need our support. I think it’s greater than ever. Matter of fact, I could even make a case that service is more important today than it was even 10 years ago, because a lot of research groups within brands are smaller. They don’t have the resources that they once had going back 20, 30 years ago.

[00:08:40] Steve Schlesinger: When I think of, you know, the days of P and G and craft and general foods and companies like that, that had huge research departments. So. You know, I love this idea of service. And I also think because you’ve made the point about culture, and I do believe that when we lean in harder on service, when [00:09:00] we really think more about our people, we benefit greater, we benefit greater in the work that we deliver from an execution standpoint, we benefit greater by How our business grows and the satisfaction that we create, not just with our clients, but with our teams.

[00:09:15] Steve Schlesinger: Um, and, and I actually think the thing I’ve always thought about with our industry as a whole is that the sweetest part of our industry are the people. If you really think about it, you know, like, look at you, you and I, friends that we’ve made, you know, we made 20, 30 years ago. I mean, you know, I have lasting relationships that are not just business relationships, they’re friendships.

[00:09:35] Steve Schlesinger: And it’s actually been one of the sweetest parts of working in this industry. are those relationships and they are all rooted originally in an element of service.

[00:09:44] Jon Last: Yeah. And it’s still, I think even like you said, even more important today, because it’s easy to sometimes think that, you know, with all of this transformation and technological change and the pace of which the industry moves, that At the end of the day, a lot of it really does come down to [00:10:00] relationships, and it comes down to trust, and it comes down to being open to make those moves.

[00:10:04] Jon Last: I mean, I think back, I remember still so vividly, this was probably 15, 20 years ago, if that, you were beginning to build a business, and you brought in these friends of the firm, and I was fortunate enough to be in that room, Where you are actually letting clients and partners and friends participate in helping you plan strategically for the evolution of the business.

[00:10:25] Jon Last: And, you know, it didn’t surprise me that you would do that because like, you know, I remember we, we had that nickname that some people took pejoratively when we were working as board members of MRA at the time, they, they called us team aggressive because we were really hard charging and pushy. But, but it also meant that we were willing to push boundaries and challenge conventional thinking.

[00:10:43] Jon Last: And, you know, I’m curious, how do you still channel that again, as you became a bigger organization, you obviously, you know, became Sago, you, you, you sold pieces of the business to that, how did you keep that going? And, or, or were there elements of it that you lost as, as, as [00:11:00] that evolution occurred? Yeah. So I think, you know, with

[00:11:02] Steve Schlesinger: any type of.

[00:11:04] Steve Schlesinger: Evolutionary journey and as well, you know, thinking about the size of the business today versus the size. It was 20 years ago. Lots of change has to happen. And, you know, some of that is how you lead, how you manage, how you delegate, um, you know, how you think about how the business is constructed or designed or architect, um, you know, you have to really sort of give that thought.

[00:11:26] Steve Schlesinger: And, you know, of course, during, during that course of time, you’re going to make some mistakes to, um, in terms of, you know, how you. Craft that leadership and how you, um, and the team and how you think through, you know, what’s important to the business and where you’re making your bets and, you know, and how you are transforming.

[00:11:45] Steve Schlesinger: And I think you have to get comfortable with the fact that it is a more complicated business today than it was many, many years ago in every right. I mean, it’s amount of people. Client type methodologies, capabilities, you name it. It is a [00:12:00] more complex business today. Um, but with that also comes a ton of excitement and enthusiasm and energy.

[00:12:07] Steve Schlesinger: And, um, you know, and as you know, I’m a big growth jockey. I love the idea of, you know, team aggressive, you know, going out there and, you know, taking those gambles and making things happen and. And also looking your wounds when you know you get some things wrong and you have to sort of redo things or, or, or, or, you know, reconfigure and that’s okay too.

[00:12:27] Steve Schlesinger: And by the way, like, that is a very powerful thing to talk to your team about, you know, this idea that, you know, we messed up. We did this wrong. Now we got to redo it and we’ve got to do it a different way. And guess what? You know, hopefully this time we’re going to do it better because we’ve learned something.

[00:12:41] Steve Schlesinger: Um, so yeah, I think when we’ve when we’ve instilled that in our culture and and in our sort of way of moving forward, I think people appreciate it. They know that there’s a lot of imperfection in who we are at Sago, but we all but they also know that there’s a lot of Energy and excitement around what we could possibly be [00:13:00] tomorrow.

[00:13:00] Steve Schlesinger: And I think that actually drives so much more value and success in the long run.

[00:13:05] Jon Last: And it’s interesting because, you know, with that, you know, from that, you have the unique perspective of being someone that grew a business that. Drew it to the point that you exited it for a brief period of time, but then you came back.

[00:13:19] Jon Last: So, you know, talk a little bit about that, honestly, what the vision is now that you’re back in the game. I mean, which I’m really glad that you are.

[00:13:27] Steve Schlesinger: Thank you. Listen, it’s good to be back. And, you know, I had actually, I did have a nice couple of years as a, as the chair of the business and I enjoyed that. It was still working, but not surely not working as hard as I was as a CEO.

[00:13:39] Steve Schlesinger: Um, so it’s good to be back. I mean, I’m, I’m definitely excited about the business. I think, um, taking a couple of years off, it really gives you a bit of a different perspective on the business. I got the opportunity to watch somebody else lead the business for a couple of years. Um, And, um, you know, and observe more from an outside seed versus, you [00:14:00] know, inside right in the, in the thick of it.

[00:14:02] Steve Schlesinger: Um, I think we’ve also lived through very different times in the last five years, you know, you know, during COVID, post COVID. You know, economic uncertainties and inflation and, you know, every other thing that you can think through and imagine in state. So, um, yeah, I feel like I’m a bit of a smarter leader right now.

[00:14:22] Steve Schlesinger: I think I’m, um, I think I have a pretty good view on what I want. To see our business do and I’ve got a great team of people around me to help me do that. Uh, and, you know, I’m looking forward to what we can accomplish, you know, in the, in the next few years. And, um, you know, and I think that we’re built well and, um, and built with purpose.

[00:14:45] Steve Schlesinger: To really sort of take the next leap and a lot of what I’ve always thought about now that I look back on the business and the various, you know, called moments in time, the pivots, the, the tipping points is, as Malcolm would say, like, I, I think that you can [00:15:00] sit there and say. You know, there are going to be points in time where the business can propel, or the business can sort of launch to another place and be a little bit different transformatively.

[00:15:10] Steve Schlesinger: And I think that’s one of the places we’re sort of at now. I think we’re at this point where we’re really becoming a more interesting data and information business to our clients. And that’s exciting. And you know, it doesn’t happen overnight. And. You know, and I think it’s, it’s incremental, but I can see us getting there.

[00:15:27] Steve Schlesinger: And I think that actually creates greater value for all the folks that we service.

[00:15:32] Jon Last: You know, there are a lot of people who listen to this series that are, that are earlier in their careers, you know, maybe even earlier than when we first met each other. And you, you’ve been very candid about acknowledging that, you know, there’s certain things that you always want to have a do over on in your career.

[00:15:46] Jon Last: If you, if you look back, I mean, what guidance would you have for an early career research professional in terms of, you know, what you wish you knew when you first got into it, both in terms of, of soft skills, as well as technical [00:16:00] skills.

[00:16:00] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah, so I mean, you know, I’m probably more focused on the soft skills and the technical skills.

[00:16:05] Steve Schlesinger: I think, um, I think I’ll talk for both saying learning, like just be a continuous learner. I think that there’s so much that you that you can get out of the folks that you talk to the meetings you sit in the jobs that you have, the conferences you attend, um, what you’re reading. I think all of that really matters to create you.

[00:16:31] Steve Schlesinger: More informed person. And I also think what I’ve really learned is, you know, my ripe old age, um, what I built in terms of a network and connections. Is unbelievable. And I would have never thought that in my twenties or thirties, like, and by the way, it doesn’t happen overnight. So it probably took me this many years to create that network and all those connections.

[00:16:54] Steve Schlesinger: But, you know, if I was talking to a younger, Steve, I would say, you know, start [00:17:00] making those connections as early as you can start meeting people, start introducing yourself, start just, you know, getting exposed to as much of this industry as you can, because I think that is where. You get the greatest value.

[00:17:12] Steve Schlesinger: I think it also comes back, John, to that sort of that sweetness, the people, which I love and so enjoy. Uh, that to me is like, I think one of my greatest. Lessons or learnings along the way. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, what has served me really well is risk taking, you know, being willing to sort of put myself out there, whether that is, you know, working with certain types of clients or working with certain types of methods, or, um, even just, you know, getting myself.

[00:17:44] Steve Schlesinger: a little bit uncomfortable. Um, and I think that has absolutely helped me. And I know also taking those risks in business decisions, you know, that has served me incredibly well. I would not be where I am today without having taken some of those [00:18:00] gambles and, you know, putting something at stake, um, and then ultimately benefiting off of it.

[00:18:07] Jon Last: That’s great. It’s great advice. And, you know, again, thinking back to some of the earlier conversations that you and I had before I started my company, you know, you were right. And it still serves us to this day. We’ve got just a moment left. And I would be remiss if I didn’t conclude our time together on the podcast.

[00:18:26] Jon Last: Getting your vision of the future, you know, 10 years, 15 years from now, we may or may not be active kind of knowing us. I think we probably still will be, but, uh, what do you see being different and what’s going to endure? I mean, obviously the relationship side is going to endure, but, but what else stays the same and what changes?

[00:18:43] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah. So I think, you know, I think what stays the same is, you know, this is still going to be quite a bit of a people driven business. And I think that connections and engagement and, um, and, you know, our ability to, uh, communicate well with each other is going to be critical. I think [00:19:00] there’s no question that, you know, the use of data and the use of AI and machine learning are going to continue to be really important parts of what we do.

[00:19:10] Steve Schlesinger: Yeah, where that all settles out and how that looks in the next 3 to 5 years. I think it’s gonna be incredibly interesting. Um, and I think it’s gonna be incredibly powerful, but I also look at it very much as a supplement to everything that is going on now, not necessarily a replacement of, um, I actually think it allows us as a, as a collective, an industry to do more work for our clients, to do faster work for our clients, To, you know, maybe even plug in, uh, insights and research in much broader ways.

[00:19:38] Steve Schlesinger: And I think that’s exciting. Um, you know, I think that there’s going to be new companies that come out. I, you know, I, I believe that one of the things I’ve always been fascinated with is how, you know, every decade there’s a whole new group of people who are out there playing in our world. And many of them don’t even come from insights, you know, from a, from a historic or a, you know, a background perspective they’re [00:20:00] coming from.

[00:20:01] Steve Schlesinger: Design or from engineering or from, you know, data or analytics. And, um, you know, and I think all of that makes it a richer environment. I believe that we play as you know, we are going to play as big a role as we ever have in the future. I think what we provide to clients is critical. Uh, and I think it’s only going to become more critical.

[00:20:22] Steve Schlesinger: The question is how we provide it is sort of what’s up in the air. And I think that’s what makes it. An interesting field to be in. And, um, I’m excited to see what it looks like. I think that the challenge for all of us and, you know, john, you and I will probably still be in this game to some degree as as the years come, you know, uh, you know, they go by.

[00:20:42] Steve Schlesinger: We’re going to be here. But the question is, how are we here? What are we doing? And how are we showing up for our clients? And to me, that is, I think, really Um, what will be really different from where we are today?

[00:20:56] Jon Last: Well, it like it, like it has been, it will be fun. And part of that fun [00:21:00] is it’s unpredictability and it’s, and the opportunity to shape it.

[00:21:03] Jon Last: I thank you, Steve, for being part of insights and innovators. And personally, thanks for being there for me along this, this fascinating ride. Here’s to more.

[00:21:12] Steve Schlesinger: Absolutely. Thanks, John. Thanks.

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