Cracking the Code of Modern Media with Helen Katz, Publicis

[00:00:00] MRII Announcer: Welcome MRII’s Insights and Innovators podcast, where we talk to top market research professionals to get their inside stories about innovative and enduring best practices. Today’s episode is sponsored by L and E Research. L and E is the expert in qualitative research recruitment with nationwide recruiting, advanced technology, and industry leading client service to unlock powerful business insights.

[00:00:25] MRII Announcer: That’s why L and E research is 99% client recommended. Now here’s your host for today’s episode. 

[00:00:32] Jon Last: Welcome to today’s episode, cracking the Code of Modern Media, new Rules, new tools, and the insights that matter most. I’m your host, John, Last, former president of Market Research Institute International. And today we’re exploring a world that’s been completely upended, media and advertising, and few people are better equipped to guide us through this than our guest.

[00:00:52] Jon Last: Helen Katz, executive Vice President of Research at Publicis Media. Helen is a trusted expert in analytics, data quality, and media [00:01:00] measurement. She co-leads the global data intelligence practice at Publicis, overseeing key data partnerships, and has authored a popular textbook, the Media Handbook.

[00:01:08] Jon Last: Including the ninth edition of which was released in 2025. In this episode, we’ll talk about how media is being redefined, how her team makes sense of an overwhelming measurement landscape, what skills today’s practitioners need to thrive, and what’s coming next. Helen, welcome to Insights and Inno Innovators.

[00:01:27] Helen Katz: Thank you. I’m happy to be here. 

[00:01:29] Jon Last: Happy to have you. And you know, you’ve had a front row seat to the transformation of media and advertising industries over recent years. I, it’s hard to believe it’s been 16 since I’ve been out of the day-to-day of the media world. What, what do you see as the most profound changes over the last five years?

[00:01:46] Helen Katz: Well, it’s, it’s a big question. I think one of the biggest change, I mean, there’ve been a lot of changes, but one of the biggest we’ve seen is the rise of identity solutions to allow advertisers to reach the people that they really wanna speak to and do so more [00:02:00] effectively. I think, uh. Publicis is my company’s acquisition of Epsilon.

[00:02:05] Helen Katz: A few years ago and more recently, our purchases of both Retarget Lee and Lotame was designed to address this need. So once you have that and you can connect identity to consumers, um, and then you add to that the greater use of first party data, like loyalty programs or memberships or subscriptions, then we’re able to really target much more effectively and reach our respective customers.

[00:02:31] Jon Last: And with the rise of those new platforms and formats as well as different audience behaviors, how have we redefined media itself? It’s kind of evolved. What does that mean for planning and buying today? 

[00:02:43] Helen Katz: It’s evolved quite a lot. We, we, you know, back when I started in the business a hundred years ago, we were mostly talking about traditional television or radio or magazines and newspapers.

[00:02:54] Helen Katz: Um, today we are looking at a much broader array to choose from. [00:03:00] Whether it’s traditional or digital, forms of paid media, ad supportive streaming, digital, audio, digital out of home, along with lots of the channels that brands now own, whether that’s content, they create, sponsorships, influencers, and then all the share shared and earned opportunities through social media or public relations.

[00:03:19] Helen Katz: So pretty broad palette for planners and buyers that they need to understand and utilize. And really, it’s honestly one of the things that keeps my job. Super interesting because there’s always more to learn about. 

[00:03:30] Jon Last: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s such a fragmented landscape out there relative to, to, again, even five years ago.

[00:03:36] Jon Last: And you think about it with, with measurement really across that fragmentation and, and so many different entities offering tools and dashboards and data. It’s gotta be pretty difficult or challenging for, for your team to make sense of it all. What, what do you do? 

[00:03:51] Helen Katz: We, we try hard. Um, I will, I will note there’s.

[00:03:55] Helen Katz: Critical distinction that we like to make between measurement and currency. So [00:04:00] we try across my team to evaluate and stay on top of the measurement landscape to the best of our ability, whether that’s conducting evaluations of providers in a particular category like creative effectiveness or attribution.

[00:04:14] Helen Katz: Um, and, and then. My team is global, so we work along, it’s not just us doing all the work, but we work closely with our community of research and analytic practitioners. Um, and, and there are 10,000 of them across publicist group to help us. And in that way, we are trying to stay on top of the fragmentation of the measurement landscape.

[00:04:36] Jon Last: Quite, quite a lot out there. And, and with so many different players claiming to measure performance, I’m curious how, how do you determine which providers are trustworthy? Which ones just add noise? Why are there red flags? I mean, as well as green lights, I, I can’t help but think about it. In our practice, you know, we, we feel that we’re very good at measuring.

[00:04:55] Jon Last: Efficacy of, of sports sponsorships, which is something that, you know, never really was a big [00:05:00] science until a few years ago. How do, how do you kind of work through the morass of, of those out there that claim to have solved it? 

[00:05:07] Helen Katz: It’s, it’s a challenge and the good news, I think, is that we don’t have to evaluate every company that comes along and says that it can measure performance or increase outcomes.

[00:05:16] Helen Katz: Some of it’s happening honestly, at the brand level or the agency level. They’re, they’re testing at out different providers too. And indeed, you know, that’s really one of the best ways to assess a company is, is to test them. Can they really do what they say? How transparent are they with their methodology?

[00:05:32] Helen Katz: And that’s honestly a, an important differentiator for finding the ones that we will trust. And then there’s, you know, things that annoy me personally, which is if a company provides example findings and somehow magically they’re all above average or over the benchmark of a 100, I start to get a little suspicious on that.

[00:05:51] Jon Last: Yeah, as as, as opposed to back in my days when it seemed like everyone was below the threshold and it drove was crazy. From a media property standpoint, [00:06:00] you know, something that we’ve been talking about in the media space for so long is the whole riddle of cross platform management and measurement. Um, are we any closer to solving that or is that still something that, uh, is really challenging to navigate?

[00:06:15] Helen Katz: It’s definitely a process and it’s still ha still going on. And like you said, we’ve been trying to solve this for a long time. Um, we have made progress. Now there are companies out there offering alternatives to Nielsen for cross-platform measurement and for currency like a comScore or IPO or video amp that are really able to provide insights into linear TV and streaming video.

[00:06:37] Helen Katz: And then there are. Fascinating new initiatives like Project Tequila, which is coming out of the Association of National Advertisers or a NA, and that’s taking a very different innovative approach to measurement. Looking at campaign delivery across media, digital video, and linear tv. And then there are numerous companies that are, are of looking at what happens after exposure [00:07:00] to across platforms, whether that’s linking attention to sales or looking at search behaviors or brand looking at conducting brand lift studies.

[00:07:09] Helen Katz: So we invest a lot of time in testing these numerous alternatives on behalf of, and together with our clients, and then we end up providing recommendations and POVs on the, the many options out there. It’s not a very much, not a one size fits all at this point. 

[00:07:24] Jon Last: Yeah, it’s, it’s, I guess it’s healthy for the industry to some extent given, you know, just so much legacy currency that, that I always often kind of bristled at, to think that it was being accepted as gospel.

[00:07:34] Jon Last: And it goes back to another topic that, that always kind of irked me when, when I was on the media side itself. And, and that’s the whole aspect and state of engagement metrics, uh, you know, lots of people obviously suggesting that they’ve solved that as well. You know, even more basically the, the emphasis that continues to be placed, it seems by some on reach and on, you know, GRPs by extension without really understanding the quality of those [00:08:00] eyeballs.

[00:08:00] Jon Last: Um, I continue to aggressively advocate that engagement, uh, elusive engagement measurement tactic. How do you, how do you solve for that? Um, I’d love to get your perspective on it. 

[00:08:13] Helen Katz: Um, again, I think it’s, I mean, you bring up a good point. Engagement can be. Uh, defined many different ways and therefore measured in many different ways.

[00:08:23] Helen Katz: It, in some, some people think, you know, time spent as a measure of engagement. Others will say it’s, it’s eyes on screen or, um, biometric measurement or, um, looking at eyeballs and, and capturing, you know, direct attention to the ad or to the content. Again, it’s, I think, not so much the eye in the eye of the holder, but we have to look at it.

[00:08:47] Helen Katz: We have to, uh, tailor our engagement measurement to the specific challenge at hand because again, like I said earlier, it’s just not a one size fits all. 

[00:08:58] Jon Last: Yeah, no, something that, that again, I think [00:09:00] is an interesting puzzle to continue to solve. I I, I often sometimes try to define it when we have custom engagements as understanding, alignment with what the, the creative brief is even trying to convey.

[00:09:11] Jon Last: And I know that’s tougher in certain environments than others, but another conversation for another time probably. Um, and, and, you know, you’ve had an interesting vantage point, obviously both from the agency side as well as the academic side. As we think about a lot of the people who listen to this series, uh, they’re looking to, to really upskill themselves.

[00:09:30] Jon Last: And what in your mind are, are those critical skills that you think re uh, research and media professionals need to have to stay ahead in, in today’s world? 

[00:09:39] Helen Katz: I would actually say, and maybe it reflects that I’ve been in the business a long time. The critical skills are probably not that different today from what they were 10 or 20 years ago.

[00:09:49] Helen Katz: And I kind of bucket them into three areas. Need, you know, that a person needs to hone to stay ahead. And the first one is curiosity. As we’ve said, it’s, [00:10:00] it’s an ever evolving space. And if you get bored with it, but you no longer care about how and why people use all the different forms of media available to them today, you probably not.

[00:10:12] Helen Katz: Probably shouldn’t still be in this business. So that’s number one. Number two is passion. Again, it’s very easy I think, to start to feel cynical that there’s no simple answers or solutions. There’s no easy button, but to me the reality is because it’s not that simple, you have to be a passionate about wanting to help solve the problems and help our brands, our clients, reach consumers through media.

[00:10:37] Helen Katz: And then the third one. Again, maybe a little old fashioned. I would say the third, uh, critical skill would, is an understanding of the fundamentals. And I think, um, it’s important for researchers and media professionals to understand some of those basics in media. Things like what does reach really mean?

[00:10:58] Helen Katz: And, um, you know, are we talking [00:11:00] it’s unduplicated audience, right? Or that something as basic as reach times frequency equals gross rating points or impressions. That often gets lost in, in the sort of the, not the chaos, but the morass of information or data that we are faced with. We sometimes skip over those fundamentals that I think are still true today in terms of understanding how our ads can.

[00:11:26] Helen Katz: Influence people’s buying decisions. 

[00:11:29] Jon Last: Yeah. And that’s, and that’s what the media handbook has always been about. I still remember some of the earlier, uh, additions of that. 

[00:11:34] Helen Katz: Yeah. I still cover the fundamentals. Yes. 

[00:11:37] Jon Last: That’s good to, good to, good to see. For, for those of us who are veterans in this space, again, thinking about that next generation of media professionals, um, we can’t ignore the elephant in the room, which is just this whole fascination and, and, and emphasis on, on automation and AI and constant disruption.

[00:11:55] Jon Last: How do people need to kind of be prepared for that? [00:12:00] 

[00:12:00] Helen Katz: I mean, there are huge benefits from automation and AI and, um, especially from an efficiency standpoint, you know, u using AI to look across and over and inside consumer trends within seconds or minutes rather than hours or days. That’s hugely helpful.

[00:12:18] Helen Katz: Um, you know, my team is, is using AI to help write software code to analyze. Vast amounts of data, and it can really help to streamline processes and make sure there’s greater consistency in them, so that even if the results are different, the approach to get there is valid and reliable. I’ve actually heard, and I I didn’t make this up, uh, AI is described, or the introduction of AI is described, it being similar to when Excel was first introduced.

[00:12:47] Helen Katz: Way back when, you know, it is a tool and it, it’s an enabling tool so that our planners and buyers can focus more on the insights and implications rather than investing hundreds or thousands of hours looking at row [00:13:00] in a spreadsheet. 

[00:13:02] Jon Last: No, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s something that obviously we, we can’t move a foot in this space without hearing about, so kind of sort through it and giving it perspective is really critical.

[00:13:13] Jon Last: Talk about, if you will, the, the obvious evolution as well from the client provider, uh, perspective. How is the role of research and insight shifted in, in, in those areas? Are, are you being asked to do things differently or in, in different emphasis? 

[00:13:31] Helen Katz: Um, I think I would say that clients are just as actively engaged in research as we are.

[00:13:37] Helen Katz: They’re certainly as interested and they want our help to help them, like I said, deliver their messages to their customers or their prospects, and many of them, I feel fortunate actually at publicist because many of our clients will lean in to test new approaches or vendors. Individually or tests through tests that we set up, like pilot tests that we set up across clients.

[00:13:57] Helen Katz: So, I dunno that there’s been a huge shift, but there’s been [00:14:00] an evolution of the questions asked. As our knowledge bank rose, I mean, we still get asked some of the same questions like, when will my ad wear out? Or, what’s the optimal number of impressions I need from my campaign? But we also get more nuanced interest and, and, uh, questioning in terms of, you know, how do I.

[00:14:20] Helen Katz: Mid-flight, mid-campaign optimizations or, um, understanding the frequency patterns over, over the course of a long campaign. And, and that again, always makes it more interesting. So I think, again, I think generally clients are as interested as, as we are in this whole research area. 

[00:14:41] Jon Last: It’s funny, you, you talk about wear out it, it reminds me of one of my favorite and maybe one of the only jokes I’ve ever heard about media research.

[00:14:47] Jon Last: And that was the one about, uh, the brand manager that, that went and complained to their agency that their campaign was wearing out. They were concerned of that and the agency had to subtly remind them that it’s still in test. They [00:15:00] involved with it. That’s a good one. Yeah, it’s an old one I think too.

[00:15:06] Jon Last: Again, given where we are and, and, and given what you’ve seen and, and been a part of over, over such a, an impressive career, if there was one thing that you could change or fix in the ecosystem of, of media and advertising, measurement and research right now, what would it be? 

[00:15:22] Helen Katz: I think it’s a great question.

[00:15:24] Helen Katz: I think it really would be to change the assumption that we have a single answer to every question. I mean, in some ways it’s like, I wish we did, but on at the same time, I’m glad we don’t. Because there are many questions and they can be answered in many different ways. And we, even with the, even with the use of ai, we don’t just have the, the immediate perfect answer by typing it into chat, GBT, it’s, you have to think about it more carefully, more thoughtfully, um, to, to make, to continue to make progress [00:16:00] to, um, to get to the answers.

[00:16:02] Jon Last: Yeah. And, and, and I guess it’s, it’s good in some ways that there isn’t a singular answer because that keeps everybody on their toes to think outta the box. 

[00:16:08] Helen Katz: Exactly. Yes. Yes. 

[00:16:10] Jon Last: So, so last question as we’re kind of right up on the end of our time here, and, and you think about the future, what are you most excited about?

[00:16:19] Helen Katz: I am always excited about the next generation. So in this, you know, right now we are spending a lot of time and, uh. Have a lot of curiosity about the, the gen gen alpha generation and how they are consuming media in terms of, you know, which media, when, where, why, how, and how is it different than previous generations?

[00:16:42] Helen Katz: And to me. It’s just, I, I find it endlessly fascinating. When my kids were younger, they were like my Petri dish for the next generation, and now they’re beyond gen alpha. But I see it again, you know, with, with younger consumers and it’s, it’s always never, [00:17:00] it never ceases to amaze me how different.

[00:17:02] Helen Katz: Different generations respond or act in, in terms of their media consumption? 

[00:17:06] Jon Last: Yeah, just across everything. It’s, it’s something that we grapple with all the time in talking about sports fandom and equipment usage. And in some ways the patterns repeat themselves, but in other ways there’s all kinds Exactly.

[00:17:18] Jon Last: Wrinkles to it. 

[00:17:19] Helen Katz: Yes. 

[00:17:20] Jon Last: It’s been been great having you on, on the podcast. So much to, to learn. We could probably go on for another 45 minutes, but uh, we like to keep these tight. So thank you again. Helen Katz from Publicists. Thanks for being a part of Insights and Innovators. 

[00:17:33] MRII Announcer: Thank you very much. Thanks for joining the Insights and Innovators podcast for Market Research Institute International.

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