A Look at the Next Generation of Insights Professionals with James Endersby, Opinium

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[00:00:37] Jon Last: What’s distinguishing the next generation of Insights industry leaders?

[00:00:40] Jon Last: No one has a finger on the new wave of movers and shakers in our profession like James Endersby, who oversees the 30 Under 30 Awards. Let’s dive into what sets these folks apart. I’m John Lass, president of Sports Leisure Research Group and a past president of MRII. In this episode, we’re going to define what is setting apart the next [00:01:00] generation of industry insights leaders with James Endersby, chairman of the Market Research Society in the UK.

[00:01:05] Jon Last: And the man behind the 30 under 30 awards, which recognizes emerging young talent in the profession. James, it’s great to have you on Insights and Innovators.

[00:01:13] James Endersby: Great to be on on your show, John, and it’s great to meet you. Um, and also, I haven’t met you, but I’ve seen your work and I just want to acknowledge you for the important work you’re doing for our sector.

[00:01:24] James Endersby: In the same spirit of this interview, we’re going to talk about it in a bit, but I love that you’re helping shine a light and telling the stories that help decision makers understand more and more about how our sector can help make better strategic decisions and look after our people and make it a destination career.

[00:01:39] James Endersby: So, a bigger thanks to you, John.

[00:01:40] Jon Last: Oh, thanks so much. I appreciate that. It’s been a long ride, but it’s always great to meet new people, and certainly very fascinated with what you’re involved with, and diving right in. I mean, you’ve championed this 30 Under 30 program now for, I guess, over four years. Um, and and those have been years that that really have been brought with [00:02:00] innovation and change in the profession.

[00:02:01] Jon Last: I I’m curious. I mean, we obviously work with young people. You work with young people and have kind of established the awards. What sets apart those young men and women today that are really being recognized at such a young age? Are there certain qualities that they bring to the table that that set them apart?

[00:02:15] Jon Last: Yeah,

[00:02:17] James Endersby: absolutely. As you can imagine, um, and you’re right. It’s certainly been a fascinating four years. Um, since we launched the 30 under 30, we now have 126 30 under 30 honorees alumni from 18 countries. Some of those have made it, uh, made the list more than once. That’s why the numbers don’t add up there.

[00:02:35] James Endersby: Um, and I’ve personally interviewed. Every single one of them. Uh, and all, all the interviews, by the way, are on significantinsightsmedia. com. Um, and what I’ve learned is that these individuals all have most of the following, um, I have a list in my head that, that set, that set them apart. And by the way, none of these are superhuman gifts, which is encouraging for everyone.

[00:02:59] James Endersby: Um, [00:03:00] anyone and everyone can step in and apply these to their career. So. These are the, these are the main ones that I come across time and time again. So number one, I think they’ve got stuck in and they’ve kept an open mind, meaning that no matter the roles that they either fell into, uh, or chose, uh, They’ve embraced their early career with an open mind and gone over and above to learn as much as they can and be as helpful as they are able to their teams and colleagues.

[00:03:27] James Endersby: Most have embraced this attitude of trying to be as useful as possible to their teams and through this, the reward, I guess, they’ve learned more than anyone else and networked more than anyone else, um, and clearly this has set them up for this kind of success. Number two, linked again, positivity. This is an incredibly positive group of people that are coming through and you can get that time and time again.

[00:03:53] James Endersby: Challenges and adversity have often gotten in the way, for sure, and I always ask. About a time in their [00:04:00] career so far, not short obviously, but a time that has gone wrong and you wouldn’t believe some of the sort of challenges that some of these have, some of these colleagues have had to get through. But these individuals recount these tricky periods as learning moments.

[00:04:13] James Endersby: So again, positive and a great attitude. Um, three, I, I’d say they’ve grown and nurtured their networks as well. They’re almost ahead of their time, uh, and their cohort. Um, and it’s linked to the open mindedness from number one. They’ve actively engaged with the industry. Networking events at the Insights Association, WIRE, MRS, SMR.

[00:04:37] James Endersby: Um, it’s global as, as you know, so, you know, all of these networks, um, and through them, they’ve learned loads, um, and found partly open doors, um, that have helped them in their roles or given them opportunities that have enabled them to get where they are today. It’s

[00:04:54] Jon Last: refreshing to hear that. I mean, I kind of think back when I first got into the business similarly, it was just [00:05:00] incredible how open a lot of people were that had so much more experience than I had to, to share with me.

[00:05:06] Jon Last: And it’s great to see that there’s still a group of people that are taking advantage.

[00:05:11] James Endersby: Well, and I, it’s so great to be able to share that then on SignificantInsightsMedia. com because I think, you know, younger researchers and younger people may be a bit nervous to ask for help. Um, but it certainly comes back and linked to that fourth, someone has helped them.

[00:05:26] James Endersby: So. Um, they all speak of mentors, colleagues or bosses who’ve been instrumental to their development and who have given them opportunities. So, um, well, it’s clear, um, as you listen to their stories that these mentors have taken a great interest in them because of their efforts and enthusiasm to grow. So you can see it just pays back.

[00:05:46] James Endersby: Um, many have not been afraid to ask for the support either, but most seem to attract it through their actions as well, which is interesting. Um,

[00:05:55] Jon Last: You know, as you’re talking about careers and when you reflect back on [00:06:00] your own personal journey, which, which has been sizable of achievement in the industry, are there certain intangibles that you personally experienced that that may have informed the vision that you’ve applied towards evaluating those who make the list?

[00:06:14] James Endersby: Yeah, definitely. Um, I love having goals and ensuring I’m personally growing and developing. Uh, it’s all about fulfillment really. Um, but, but I guess what fills my cup is making sure it’s fun. And we spoke about that before we started recording. Um, to putting people first always and leaving a positive mark.

[00:06:33] James Endersby: Um, in terms of a career, I think it’s important to enjoy what the work you do. And I also think it’s important to connect. Act in and play a part of the wider ecosystem. Um, I don’t know if you see that movie with Jack Nicholas about Schmidt. Have you seen it?

[00:06:46] Jon Last: Uh, no, actually. Oh,

[00:06:49] James Endersby: possibly don’t. But I love Jack Nicholas, by the way, but where the movie starts with Schmidt, who’s played by Nicholson, he’s just staring at the office clock, hunting down the final [00:07:00] seconds of his depressing career before retirement.

[00:07:02] James Endersby: I remember watching that and thinking, how awful would that be? Terrifying. So I think it’s important to do everything you can to enjoy work. To enjoy the work you do. And if it’s not interesting, make it interesting, making it me meaningful, um, and add to it by getting out in the sector. Um, so that’s what I’ve been doing.

[00:07:18] James Endersby: Um, I’ve loved taking a risk, uh, and growing opinion. I’m, I’m CEO of opinion. Uh, that’s my day job. Um, uh, from two colleagues, um, back in 2010 to 114, currently, um, with an office near you in New York, uh, London, Amsterdam, and Cape Town, and we’ve got much, much more to do, um, NED roles. I think it’s important.

[00:07:38] James Endersby: Once you get, I also think a lot of people can contribute in an NED role, whether it’s a small charity or even wider, a lot sooner than they think they can. We’ve got lots of skills in business that we can transfer over to charity. So try to do that a lot. Um, mainly in the youth democratic participation space.

[00:07:56] James Endersby: Um, big fan of democracy. [00:08:00] Um, and then founding significant insights, media. com. I’ve always thought our sector is too modest about our achievements. And our huge importance in driving strategic organizational decision making. Um, and when we do start talking, we, we end up and it’s, I know it’s important, but we end up banging on about methodology too much and not about the impact of our great people and our work.

[00:08:23] James Endersby: Um, and internally as a sector, I, uh, we don’t champion each enough either. I mean, You’re you’re obviously an exception here. Um, trying to trying to hear from from people in the sector. But but if we don’t, you know, there’s not enough of this. That means there’s no one. No one learns from those you’ve gone before.

[00:08:41] James Endersby: Again, we were talking about this earlier. Um, so that’s why I created significant insights media. Um, it’s a it’s a platform for the data analytics, research and insights industry with a simple mission to allow us to be able to access and unlock the career journeys, achievements, tips, wisdom. Some of those at the [00:09:00] top or on their way up.

[00:09:01] James Endersby: Um, and that’s where the 30 under 30 also comes in. Um, uh, It’s

[00:09:06] Jon Last: a great effort. I I recall at some point a while ago Talking to somebody when they’ve been for an article where I talked about the marketing of marketing research and yeah to see that happen There still needs to be more of it. I mean, I I think a lot of people in the profession undersell themselves.

[00:09:24] Jon Last: And as you said, they get so caught up methodologically that they fail to see the forest through the trees. And, you know, when I was back, you know, before I started my company in my corporate days, I was, I didn’t realize how lucky I was because I also oversaw marketing. So research was just kind of the fulcrum of what marketing was.

[00:09:41] Jon Last: It was truth. It was the ability to. Gather the types of insight that not only guided the business, but could illustrate the business, and it kind of went hand in hand. But going back to young leadership, um, you know, and thinking about the vast responsibility of identifying the 30 under 30, [00:10:00] are there certain foundational elements or table stakes that you find?

[00:10:03] Jon Last: I mean, you talked about some of the qualities earlier. Are there other other aspects that people need to, you know, criteria that people need to have to be recognized in that way?

[00:10:13] James Endersby: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, we’ve thought long and hard about about this point. So to be nominated. Um, and obviously you have to be under 30.

[00:10:24] James Endersby: Um, and from the data analytics research and insight sector, um, the nomination entry needs to demonstrate two key requirements. Both are linked, uh, to my philosophy we were discussing earlier on how we can. Or make an impact in our professions, um, and you must obviously convince the senior client and agency judging panel from 16 countries.

[00:10:46] James Endersby: You’ve got some fantastic judges, um, many, many who you, who you will know, um, and client side and agency side, um, but they need to convince the nomination needs to convince that this individual up. Shines everyone else in these [00:11:00] two areas. So number one, uh, and quite obviously they are outstanding in their roles at their organization.

[00:11:06] James Endersby: Obviously, you know, these are the superstars in your teams. Um, the judges are looking for examples of how their work in the organization has made an exciting impact, um, how they have in their short career so far. Are made an oversized impact, um, in research team, um, insights team, et cetera. Um, at their agency or in their, um, in their organization on the, on the client side.

[00:11:29] James Endersby: Um, and then, which is what I’m really, really passionate about, and it makes it harder. Um, uh, and it makes the significant insights global 30 under 30 really exciting and inspiring is that for the second requirement, the nominee must also demonstrate an outstanding contribution to the wider data analytics, research and insight sector.

[00:11:48] James Endersby: Yeah. And or to the world in which they live through insights, um, and representing the profession. The second is really hard for researchers who may only be inside their, [00:12:00] you know, their first five, five years of, uh, of their career. Um, so you can just see how special these individuals are. Um, and I, just one point quickly, because you were talking about it earlier, but what’s of additional interest to the.

[00:12:14] James Endersby: First four years anyway, um, of, of, of these, uh, 30 under 30. Um, uh, when we created, when I created it in, in, um, it was a time of immense change and flux for everyone as we were grappling with the pandemic. Um, it was 2021, the first, um, 30 under 30 lockdowns. And from a work perspective, we were all thrown behind our screens.

[00:12:38] James Endersby: What’s, you know, bereft of human connection, real connection that we, that we need to thrive. And so many of us, um, need to, to obviously thrive and survive. So many of the honorees, uh, have over delivered on both requirements despite all of this change, which, which I think makes these Incredibles even more extraordinary, if you think about it.

[00:12:56] Jon Last: No, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a great point. I, I, I joke around. I think I was [00:13:00] having this conversation with somebody the other day at COVID was the time or after COVID was the time that you’d meet clients and others that had never seen you from below the neck. And they were like, Oh gosh, you’re really a tall and big guy.

[00:13:11] Jon Last: How tall are you? Yeah, exactly. So, so you talked about change and, and, and that’s obviously something that, that, that is obviously constant and critical to stay on top of. In the industry and we focus on it so much on this series, as you look at the ways that the industry has transformed itself in recent years, both on the client side and the provider side, what, if anything, has changed in terms of the skill sets that that young professionals who might be watching this need to think about that they need to bring to their to their career paths that will lead them in the industry forward.

[00:13:46] James Endersby: Yeah. Uh, great question. Um, firstly, as someone who bangs the drum for the profession, um, and as someone who thinks our sector should quite rightly receive a lot more attention from the C suite than it currently does, as we were just saying, um, because [00:14:00] insights power everything. The question around skills required on the client side couldn’t be more important.

[00:14:04] James Endersby: I’m focusing on the client side here. Um, our client side colleagues are at the coalface. Um, Uh, they hold incredibly important roles, and not only do they have to be research experts, but for me, the absolute key skill is communication. Um, of course, we know they need to be able to work closely with their internal stakeholders to deeply understand the issues, and then, and then once the research is complete, to ensure they help make the most of it.

[00:14:30] James Endersby: But I think, um, what has also become equally, or if not more important, is that alongside all of this, they need to have the skills and focus to defend the Entire ecosystem, um, given that without the necessary priority focus and most importantly budgets given, we can’t be as effective as as organizations and businesses need us to be.

[00:14:50] James Endersby: So I often hear that research budgets are the first things to get cut, you know, that old saying with marketing during tough economic times, but how, [00:15:00] how ridiculous is that? Um, Just at the very moment when organizations need to know what consumers and their customers are really thinking more than ever before, boom, there’s a tendency to reduce budgets.

[00:15:11] James Endersby: So we all need to support our client side researchers and they need to possess and develop their diplomacy and communication skills to be able to ensure they are leading these conversations. Um, and similar to some of the 30 under 30, um, traits, they need to be constantly networking within the organizations and showcasing the importance of understanding the customer employee, um, everyone of the business stakeholders.

[00:15:38] Jon Last: It’s it’s it’s so it’s so critical to take that contextual holistic perspective of where research fits in. I I think back to again some of the seminars that we’ve done over the year where we’ve brought people from disparate elements of the value chain together and, you know, to to have that understanding fully of how what we do is applied, I think really puts people a step [00:16:00] ahead.

[00:16:00] Jon Last: I concur. You know, it leads to to thinking about the future. Um, There’s a lot of folks out there who gravitate towards this attention seeking, disruptive vision for insights. There’s elements of that that are clearly correct. Others, the other perspective is that it is more dismissive to that. They cling to a belief that the consummate insights professional has certain immutable skills and tools and qualities that will remain at the heart of what we do.

[00:16:26] Jon Last: I’m curious where you land on this. How does that manifest itself and what those in the early stages of their career need to think about?

[00:16:34] James Endersby: I think I’m somewhat in the middle. But one thing’s for certain, um, the robots are here, John, and that is a very good thing. Um, in terms of AI, etc. We, and ResTech, you know, we now need to focus on dialing up our relevant skill sets and on how we empower AI and ResTech to become as useful as it can be.

[00:16:55] James Endersby: Whether that’s helping us dig deeper, be smart. That will be more and more [00:17:00] efficient change. Change is obviously inevitable, but we need to ensure we take our people along with us. Um, a lot of what our people have been doing and how they’ve been doing it will change significantly, but that doesn’t need to be scary.

[00:17:11] James Endersby: In fact, one thing is clear to me that the insights professional, both on the client and agency side is becoming even more essential. Um, storytellers, communicators, what else can I throw? Navigators of the truth, um, will always remain. Um, but we do need to adapt to the evolving landscape, um, influenced by AI advancements.

[00:17:33] James Endersby: We need to develop ourselves across a number of areas. Um, and I think the research of tomorrow will need to To have a whole bunch of skills and focus on skills and abilities like I mentioned, I think communication skills is right at the top. They need strong verbal and written communication skills to present findings to stakeholders clearly and effectively.

[00:17:52] James Endersby: I mean, I know we’ve always needed that, but it’s never been more important. Um, no difference to today. Communication, communication, communication. Obviously, [00:18:00] AI and machine learning, understanding. Um, You know, rubbish in rubbish out type of thing. You know, we need to become more familiar with AI tools and as leaders in our in our agencies and in our teams, we need to be able to ensure that our teams are trained up to be able to, to, to, to, to, to use all of this wonderful technology appropriately.

[00:18:22] James Endersby: I think critical thinking has never Um, the ability to critically evaluate data, identify trends and, um, make reasoned conclusions. Again, you’d think this was in, in a job spec from 10 years ago, but all I’m saying is I think it’s even more important than ever before. Um, and then adaptability and, and this is a tough one because, you know, we’re, we’re remote working where, you know, lots of people want to be at home, which is, which is a good thing to have a hybrid.

[00:18:48] James Endersby: That’s what we do. Um, but. Um, I think being around people and being in the office, et cetera, that really helps with, um, ensuring that, uh, that, [00:19:00] that our, that our teams are, um, you know, robust and adaptable, um, and being open to learn as well and new methods. And, and finally, we need to continue to be consumer behavior insight experts.

[00:19:11] James Endersby: Um, I, I’m, you know, my agency, we’re inside consultants. So I realized we don’t represent the whole agency. So we’re, you know, traditional. market research agency or inside agency. Um, so we’re all about the people. Um, we use res tech, of course, a lot of it. Um, but for us, it’s about that consultancy level and, and yeah, we think it’s more important than ever.

[00:19:32] James Endersby: No,

[00:19:32] Jon Last: you’re, you’re channeling exactly something that I’ve, I’ve espoused forever. I, I have a favorite line that I’ve used and Probably I’ve even used it on this podcast in the past that I often would describe what we do as, you know, the difference between what we do and what consultants, you know, what high price McKinsey I pick on because I work there, the difference between us and them is it’s just a million dollars in engagement.

[00:19:53] Jon Last: That’s the only difference. And if you become really valuable, which is what we want, I

[00:19:59] James Endersby: [00:20:00] agree.

[00:20:01] Jon Last: We’re just about at the at the end of our time here. I can’t let you go without one final question. And that would be if you think back on your career. And if you could do one thing over again, what would it have been, um, you know, what advice would you have for those earlier in their careers that, you know, can help propel them along the pathway that Would be most actualizing.

[00:20:22] James Endersby: Yeah, that’s such a great question. Um, I’ll focus on advice for anyone starting out. Um, and then maybe I’ll try and think of something that I’d like to do over again. Um, but, um, I think, you know, my advice to anyone starting out. And of course, I’ve got my own career, but I’m in this fortunate position of interviewing all of these brilliant people early on in their careers, all of which is on SignificantInsightsMedia.

[00:20:46] James Endersby: com. So Excuse the advert, but it’s for the greater good. No, it is. Absolutely. It’s there. It’s all there. All of their wisdom. And not only from them, but from some of the great and the good, uh, a lot more senior as well. So much advice there. But [00:21:00] anyway, my, my, um, I think, um, openness to learn, grow and develop themselves.

[00:21:06] James Endersby: It’s something that’s essential. Every day is a school day, and I don’t think you should stop doing that. By the way, throughout your career, um, you never stop learning. Don’t overrate the importance of grinding it up and establishing the basics at anything. Um, and I think you and I are on the same page with that based on our conversations.

[00:21:24] James Endersby: Um, I think openness to collaborate and help out your teams. Um, you see so many people just stuck in their lane, and if they just get their head up, you know, it’s amazing how much they can learn and help and, uh, so volunteer. Yeah. in your teams, outside your teams. This will help make you more visible as well in your, in your organization.

[00:21:42] James Endersby: Uh, it will open up more opportunities for you simply. Um, and this will help grow your network inside and outside the organization. Um, and it’s like magic, you’ll get invited onto all these important projects and position yourself really, really well. Um, so many, so many people at Opinium asked me, you know, how do I get Get onto the great [00:22:00] projects and can you put me on?

[00:22:00] James Endersby: It’s like just volunteer and people will bring you on because they realize they need you on their team. Um, stay positive as well. I would, I would, uh, I would say to myself, um, which I think I’m a pretty positive person, but I think it is incredibly important to stay positive and optimistic. Actually, somebody was saying you.

[00:22:18] James Endersby: You know, too positive sometimes, but it’s about being optimistic, I think, as well. So challenges and adversity are inevitable, um, but use these tricky periods as learning moments. Um, at Opinium, we, we have the saying, uh, if, if we don’t, you know, if we don’t win a proposal, we, we, we don’t know, we don’t know where we came, but we always just say, oh, it was a close second.

[00:22:38] James Endersby: That was a close second. And, you know, that’s, we’ve learned a lot. And next time we’ll, we’ll, we’ll win, hopefully. Um, and then I can’t, uh, finish this without. Getting back to networking. We don’t have to stay at home anymore. Surprise. We can get out and get out and about. And we’re trying to do that in our agency.

[00:22:56] James Endersby: Again, we used to be all over the show. We are out because [00:23:00] obviously there’s lots of events to go to. But the Insights Association, Women in Research, MRS, SMR, if you are, you know, junior, middle of your career, these are the places, these are the events you should be going to and getting out. And then finally, spoke about it earlier.

[00:23:17] James Endersby: Just ask. I think a lot A lot of researchers possibly feel that they can’t ask for help, ask for support, ask someone to be their mentor, just ask, and there are loads of good people in our sector, what a compliment to be asked to help you, um, and the worst thing that could happen is they’ll say no. Um, and, but you flattered them, um, and you never know when you’ll meet again.

[00:23:38] Jon Last: And, and if you don’t ask, they’ve already said no. That’s what I always say.

[00:23:41] James Endersby: There you go.

[00:23:42] Jon Last: Good point. James, it’s been great chatting with you. We, we, I wish we could go on for another 40 minutes, but, uh, thank you so much for everything you’ve done, not only in identifying this, this great next generation of leaders, but, but really some terrific and valuable advice for anybody at any stage of their career.

[00:23:58] Jon Last: Uh, you’ve, you’ve been a great guest and [00:24:00] thank you all for listening and watching this episode of insights and innovators. Thanks, John.

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